BlahDeBlah

You know...frats are one of those things where I just don't really 'get it', so to speak. I've thought about it and I've read comments in this thread and comments elsewhere and all of that still never manages to answer my questions. I can't really find a reason for someone wanting to join a frat except for the obvious-but-dismissed reasons: partying and elitism.

People will say that they join for the close friendships, but you can make close friendships and just as many (nobody has 70 "best friends", don't delude yourself) by other means and many people do. Unless of course you are for some reason incapable of getting people to befriend you simply for the sake of simple friendship and not because you're both members of the same organization and you're therefore "supposed" to be friends. People will then also say that they were friends with the guys in the frat before joining and that's why they joined, which implies that in order to continue being friends with them you have to join (being friends without joining doesn't seem to be an option) which makes me question the initial "friendship" and brings us to elitism again. And let's not even begin to pretend that you can't do community service by yourself if you are so inclined.

So either I'm missing something here or that's really all there is and people just like to pretend otherwise.

lucifer11287

I never said hazing should be done as hard in fraternities as it is in the military; that said, it serves the same purpose in both - assuring that people are dedicated to their unit and each other. Hazing isn't what instills a "chain of command" - it is what forces a group of people (be they pledges or marines in training) togather and lets them know that, under pressure, they can rely upon one another to deliver. Do I want to know that my fraternity brothers have my back no matter what? Absolutely. Again, the "die for you, die for your frat" is a matter of degree, not type. I know that when I join next semester I'll be willing to sacrifice for my future brothers, and I'd hope (and think) they'd do the same for me.

Deaths from hazing result from a variety of things. Some involve ridiculous, stupid hazing that serves no purpose and is simply dangerous for the sake of being dangerous; there is a big difference between forcing pledges to do pushups and run miles and forcing them to swim freezing lakes and act as human sponges for various bodily fluids/excretions. The kind of hazing I support - the kind that tests one's mettle - need not be dangerous and is without doubt not disgusting.

Dima343

I didn't mean to say that I hate my school. I love my college and pretty much everything about it. I thought long and hard about where I wanted to go to school and I know I made the right decision. I did it for many reasons including the location (I wanted to see what life was like outside the NE and outside big cities), and so far everything has worked out wonderful and I am very happy here.

One of the things I was most worried about coming here was the social life, I did not expect there to be one so far from what I considered "civilization." But thanks to the Greek System, I have been proven wrong and I love the social life here. Because of the high percentage of Greeks on campus and because there are so many frats for so few students, our Greek system is designed so there is a frat for everyone and our frats in general are not nearly as hardcore as those at big schools with smaller percentages of Greek students. This means that frat-life is not all about parties and that everyone is welcomed into at least one frat - I know of no guy, even those that stayed independent, that did not get a bid somewhere (though some did have the grades to rush so it didn't matter). Also you may not be able to have 70 best friends but how about 40 great friends (about the number of actives in a frat) and ~10 best friends (your pledge class, the people you live with). My choosing to live in a frat house next year was no different from an independent friend of mine choosing to live in a suite with some of his friends. Also, I could well be friends with frat guys without joining the frat, I have friends at several different fraternities as well as independents, but my best friends are going to be at the fraternity cause we'll be living together, eating together and organizing parties, community service, and other frat stuff together.

BTW, BlahDeBlah, there's not much elitism involved when pretty much everyone else is Greek too.

PS: I am not going to argue that vicious hazing does not occur anywhere, I'm sure it still does. I personally have not experienced it. But do you really know you're getting all the details when the media reports "hazing deaths." I'm not saying hazing deaths and serious injuries don't occur and it is absolutely horrifying when they do and I completely disagree with hazing as putting someone's life in danger is not the way to see if he's good enough to be a brother. What I am saying is that the media often has an anti-fraternity stance and some articles on "hazing incidences" only get one side of the story when in reality it could have been something the pledge did which no brother ever told him to do. For example, I know of one kid who got a bottle of alcohol from his frat as part of a ceremony and he and others drank it but to prove himself he decided to drink it all right away instead of taking his time and ended up getting quite sick. The frat did not encourage him to do something stupid like that and no one else did it but I am certain that had he died, all the blame would have fallen on the fraternity and it would have been called hazing.

proton

your not cool enough for the frat

Megadethfan

do you frats offer "better men" programs or something like that, because those seem to be pretty cool, i talked to my friend at sdsu and he said he loved it, i so them and it actually didnt seem that bad as long as your with level headed people, plus i think hazing is stupid if its degrading in anyway

adconard

BlahDeBlah I have always had the exact same thoughts.

Rileydog

lucifer - I understand what you are saying and I think it is like moving to Mexico or moving to France, or anywhere different - you adapt to the culture. In the South, frats are part of the culture. It sounds ilke you have given this a lot of thought and are comfortable with your environment. My sadness re: my own son joining a frat is that I feel it is a fork in the road that leads to another "person". If he had chosen a school without frats he would not spend four years entrenched in a frat culture. Every experience we have molds us, whether it be college in the south, college in Maine, the army, whatever, and shapes us in a different way. Just not what I had hoped for, for my son.

Rileydog

Actually, sorry, I meant to reply to Dima343.

Lucifer, you truly do scare me and only serve to reinforce my idea of who joins frats and why. Good luck to you and I hope your brothers turn out to be all that you wish them to be.

Dima343

We have one frat here, SPE, with the "balanced man program," it just started up this year and I have my doubts about it working. They are actually recolonizing after the national organization disbanded them about 3-4 years ago, they were a regular frat back then.

calmom

Note:
Matt Pearlstone, a Cornell student, whose screen name is Lucifer11287, as noted on facebook, passed away on March 17, 2006 after attending a fraternity party at UVA.

http://media.www.cornellsun.com/medi...epublisher.com

Obituary/Guest Book
http://www.legacy.com/STLToday/Death...sonId=17112389

IzzieBear

First off, the Lucifer11287 who posted a few days ago is now dead? Am I missing something?

Secondly, Dima, we have SigEp too. They actually came and talked to our sorority last night at meeting, explaing their "balanced man program", and asking us if we could recommend any of our male friends. I dunno about the whole things...

<3,

Izzie Bear

hazmat

Unless you didn't read the links........you have all the info we do. Sad, Sad story.

Untilted

HOLY CRAP!~

it's HIM, who died!!!!!!!!!

OIMGOMGOMGOMGOGM

yes i go to UVa. i didnt know matt's sn is the same as his username on CC!

Megadethfan

sad but true, which makes it more sad..i know so many people like this guy

Dima343

I just can't believe I was talking to him less than a week ago and then he died an hour away from where I go to school . . .

But if he died of alcohol poisoning, let it be a lesson, you could never be too careful. I take pride in always being smart about my drinking but I made a mistake like that once this year too and realizing that I could have died, I am now insanely careful anytime I or any of my friends drink - I've even kept the empty bottle to remind me.

Please be careful guys, college should be the time of your life but not the end of you life.