fabrizio

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. Are you suggesting that we cannot fault those parents in Shaker Heights for having a suboptimal educational philosophy?

Easy

What something is supposedly meant for and what something accomplishes are two different things except by virtue of concurrence.

fabrizio

Newjack88,

Let’s take a look at a public university – UC Berkeley. According to Dr. Richard Sander, “…for African-Americans, the 1995 class had a four-year graduation rate of 26%, while the 2001 class had a 52% graduation rate [Hispanics numbers are comparable]. For whites and Asians, it barely changes…The five and six-year grad rates for minorities get pretty close to the white rates [within five points]…”

52% versus 95%...is that the same?

I don’t know if Proposition 209 caused the increase in graduation rates. All I know is that after it passed, the rates went up. By comparison, before Michigan passed Proposal 2, black graduation rates at the University of Michigan were seventeen percentage points behind whites. Source. 17 versus 2…is that the same?

Newjack88

Easy:

Yea, I am pretty sure you're done. "If some mutated strand of staph infection killed every current NBA player..." What is the point of even taking the discussion there?

fabrizio:

I was pointing out that you pretty much failed at life in that post.

fabrizio

Newjack88,

StormFront? Again, bad faith discussion.

Nationally, blacks fail the bar exam at four times the rate of whites. According to Dr. Sander, “Black students admitted through preferences generally have quite low grades — not because of any racial characteristic, but because the preferences themselves put them at an enormous academic disadvantage.” Source.

Wasn’t it you who said that GPA was the best indicator of future performance?

fabrizio

Newjack88,

So you’re admitting that you have no substance in your arguments. Thanks.

Easy

Hmm I don't know, bringing imagery and liveliness to my post in explaining that NBA qualification could be quite low? I'm obviously so done.

Go sit on the sidelines newjack. Let the real ballas play amongst themselves; you have nothing to contribute in making posts like that.

Newjack88

fabrizio:

You failed again. How is the graduation rate representative of the difficulty of graduating from the school? Go back and and try to comprehend what I was talking about in that sentence.

Also, UMich is not an elite/Ivy League school.

Lastly, Berkeley and UMich are outliers in this.

Anyway, check out Black Student College Graduation Rates Inch Higher But the Large Racial Gap Persists.

Basically, it is people like you who go on and on about how affirmative action is "immoral" that cause African Americans and other minorities to do poorly. I bet Asians would do poorly if they were discriminated against/viewed in the same ways African Americans, Hispanics, and Native Americans are/were. Ever since whites considered Asians to be the "model minority" Asians have continued to succeed. It is people like you who encourage minorities to self segregate and to question whether or not they are capable/deserving of attending a good school. People like you just seem reluctant to be welcoming of minorities. Why does it surprise you that at schools where there are a bunch of fabrizio's, Easy's, and dontno's prancing around and making racist/sexist comments who seem to think that they have a right to supersede the admissions officers' decisions and decide who is truly worthy/entitled to being admitted that African Americans and other minorities do poorly?

Newjack88

Yea, you are done. And by the way that was a great hypothetical example that everyone ought to seriously consider.

Newjack88

fabrizio:

Haha. You need everything spelled out for you don't you? I wouldn't expect that from a UGA student... actually yes I would. (Just for your criticizing that Stanford student.)

Anyway, you said, "I don’t deny that racism is one component, but I think it is incredibly naïve to assert that it alone explains the gap. What about culture?" I think it is you who is unable to respond with substance. I said that culture of various racial/ethnic groups have been heavily crafted by race/the society's view of that race. You failed because your example of a non-racial component to the problem--culture--actually is racial. If you are going to say there are more components to the problem than just race give one that doesn't have to do with race.

EDIT:

What did your stats from high school look like?

Easy

Everyone but you. I'd hate to make you uncomfortable with whatever you might be believing.

You continue to proffer transparent pieces of rhetoric even after I called you on it several times.

You've switched around cause and effect. Or do you really believe that Asians are only successful because white people think they're smart?

fabrizio

Newjack88,

How is the graduation rate not representative of the difficulty of graduating from the school? I live in a city that has a four-year university. Its four-year graduation rate is a little higher than 25%. It’s not hard that of a school – I’ve taken classes there – but clearly, it is difficult to graduate from the school. If it were not difficult, then the graduation rate would not be so low.

Michigan is certainly not a part of the Ivy Leagues. However, I challenge you to say, “Michigan is not an elite school” at our CC Michigan subforum. See what kind of responses you get.

Ironically, your source does not corroborate your claim that Michigan and Berkeley are outliers. According to your source, "[The black graduation rate] is 20 percentage points below the 63 percentage rate for white students. On this front, the only positive news is that over the past three years the black student graduation rate has improved by four percentage points." Virginia is the outlier for it is the only public university on that entire list.

Absolute duplicity. You are the one saying that blacks need to be treated preferentially. I’m the one saying blacks don’t need racial preferences, that they’re just as good. Think about that for a moment and then tell me with a straight face that you are more encouraging than I am.

I’m not going to respond to the remainder of your post because it is nothing but straw men.

Newjack88

Are you Asian? If so, I suggest you read more on Asian American history--actually even if you're not Asian too.

People of color who immigrated legally after the civil rights movement occurred have had a psychological advantage. Look at the success of Asians and the African immigrants of the 1990s.

fabrizio

Newjack88,

Uh, I go to Georgia Tech…

This is like Kent Hovind’s evolution challenge. If you’re going to define it this way, then there’s nothing I can do because based on your view of race, you will always say, “Race influenced that!”

That racism is an influence on culture does not mean that you can just write off culture as redundant and hence unimportant. Doing so means that we cannot fault those parents in Shaker Heights for having a suboptimal educational philosophy, that they are blameless.

Easy

Is it a psychological advantage or is it a reflection on the composition of those immigrants? If these Africans and Asians were the most (or more) competent members of their home countries, then they would be successful in America too.