Easy

No, but there's reason to ponder if the average admitted black or hispanic student was of a lower caliber than the average white or Asian student.

Newjack88

fabrizio:
I was just posting to say I agreed with her.

SwallowedGum

What an idiot professor (if he existed). Black perspective. Wow. Its dumb stuff like this that I consider candied racism. Diversity is about combining the races, not singling them out.

Zamzam

On a tangential note: one of my coworkers--who happens to be Cambodian--is applying to med school. When asked by my other coworkers why she applied to Howard (they argued that she'd stick out like a sore thumb, which she would), she replied that she didn't know it was so overwhelmingly black: she picked it because it had the lowest average matriculant GPA and MCAT of schools in the region.

But what could that possibly show?

Edit: Diversity is about appreciating and respecting all races, not combining them. If everyone was a shade of light brown, there'd be no diversity, now, would there?

cornell.2012

"One of the points that essay talked about--white privilege--was essentially that if you're white, your credentials can't be challenged because of your race. While affirmative action may have helped one student gain a leg up, there's no reason to assume that every black or hispanic applicant was of a lower caliber than the average white applicant. Just like the example in the first post--a black student being called on to represent an entire race--making assumptions about the quality of all minority applicants diminishes them and deindividualizes them."

I think the point you're missing is that these "assumptions" about minorities that make it through the admissions process or make it in the professional world exist primarily because of affirmative action. Affirmative action is only contributing to the problem it is trying to solve.

Newjack88

I think the point you're missing is that these people would not make those "assumptions" if they did not feel some sense of entitlement/privilege. Anyway, what problem is Affirmative Action addressing? I thought it was addressing a lack of representation of certain groups? I do not see how it is solving yet contributing to that problem?

Easy

You cannot automatically attribute those assumptions to entitlement or prestige:

Newjack88

I think in many cases it's accurate to do so.

People typically questions others' qualifications when they feel as though they are more qualified/feel entitled. It does not make sense for someone who sees themself as unqualified/not entitled to question the qualifications of someone else.

You seem to be forgetting that some candidates of demographic A will be sacrificed for other candidates of demographic A. Also, this whole example is based on the assumption that for one reason or another--test scores, GPA, etc.--candidates of demographic A are entitled to jobs/spots.

I think that people should quit pretending they know what qualifications they need to land a specific job or to gain admittance into HYP.

arachnophobia12

Umm, I think that's why they ask for a list of your extra-curricular activities-they quite often can figure out whether or not you're a "flaming liberal", chuch-goer, french horn player, etc. (i.e. you bring some type of diversity) from that list.

Bourne

If it's not entitlement/privilege, then why are only specific groups targeted?

fabrizio

I absolutely abhor the term “sense of entitlement.” I’ve found that it’s a meaningless phrase that supporters of racial preferences bestow upon anyone who wishes to be treated without regard to his race. It’s nothing more than a roundabout way to call someone a racist. (If you’re accusing someone of believing that he’s special because of his race, how is that any different from calling him a racist?)

Going back to the paragraph cornell.2012 quoted in post #35, the reason why the credentials of whites “can’t be challenged because of…race” is because whites don’t receive preferential treatment on the basis of their race. Sure, you can remind me that legacy and athlete preferences often favor whites. But, are they favoring whites because they’re white or because they’re the children of alums? Because of their skin color or because they play a sport? There is a difference in the way the preferential treatment is allocated; do not conflate them.

When being black is worth the equivalent of 240 extra SAT points, you don’t need to think that you’re special because of your race for you to question the qualifications of protected minorities.

Easy

"but fabrizio, you can't use Chang and Espenshade's study! That... that... can't possibly be true because it would ruin my naive bleeding heart outlook on life..."

I question the qualifications of people who get affirmative action boosts in admissions or the workplace. It must be because I feel a sense of entitlement or privilege, and not because those boosts effectively override differences in qualifications.

Shrinkrap

"but fabrizio, you can't use Chang and Espenshade's study! That... that... can't possibly be true because it would ruin my naive bleeding heart outlook on life..."


How about because that study uses data that is at least ten, and maybe more than twenty five years old?

http://opr.princeton.edu/faculty/Tje...adeSSQPtII.pdf

"....Using data from the National Study of College Experience on 124,374 applications for admission during the 1980s and the fall semesters of 1993 and 1997, they found that elite universities give extra weight "...

Maybe I missed something...


The article goes on to say

...Finally, the advantage that athletes have over nonathletes in elite universityadmissions has been growing, whereas the strength of the minority student advantage, especially for Hispanic candidates, has been waning.

Newjack88

fabrizio:

The Chang and Espenshade study is not very reliable for the reasons Shrinkrap mentioned.

There are many reasons why a person may feel a sense of entitlement. It is not always about race. In most cases the kids who feel a sense of entitlement do so because they have 2300+ SAT scores, 4.0+ GPA, Top 1% of their class, Intel Semi-Finalist/Finalist, or etc.

Haha. You shot yourself in the foot.

African Americans, Native Americans, and Hispanics do not receive preferential treatment because of their race. They receive it because their races are underrepresented; do not conflate the two.

Easy

Okay, what if kids with 2300+ SAT scores, 4.0+ GPA, Top 1% of their class, are disgruntled because someone with a 2100, 3.6 GPA, top 5% of his/her class, gets into a school instead of them due to affirmative action? Are they disgruntled because they feel that they're entitled to the acceptance or disgruntled because someone less qualified got into a school because of affirmative action? You can't automatically assume the former.