afitscher

^not saying its right or wrong, but its defiantly talked about, its been shown in text and is open for interpretation and opinions, but i wouldnt deem myself in-accurate in any regards, and yea i realize its a choice, but life is full of choices as long as i care for the person at the time, then i won't regret it, just because you had a bad experience by not waiting, does not mean it is that way for eveyone in the world. one thing i hate about devoted christians is they seem to have the sense they are better and more erudite than everyone else.

ThisCouldBeHeavn

The latter doesn't prove the former. Until it's proven that there is something at birth that determines sexual orientation (and I don't follow this closely enough to know whether signs have already been found), it remains possible that there is some method for changing. Whether searching for that method is necessary or desirable is a different debate.

afitscher

and having experience doesnt necessarily mean making better decisions, if you have experiences with making bad decisions constantly thats not gonna help obviously, G. Bush's politically experiences obviously didnt help him make right decisions, or even any decisions. having experiences means your going to be influenced to lean one way or another, sometimes thats not always a good thing, so im happy i dont have experience, id rather go with my heart and think it out logically. just because im older doesnt equate to me making a more well informed decision, trust me, anyone who is in high school has been informed numerous times in health class, by friends, and by numerous lectures on the home front.

lockn

Well, it certainly proves that it is not a "choice" by any commonly accepted definition of the word.

A study found that if one of a set identical twins is gay, the other has a 50% chance of being homosexual. If one of a set of fraternal twins is gay, the figure is 20% (fraternal twins only share half of their DNA). Another study found that gay and straight people have physically differing brain structure. There have been other studies you can look up, but I can't remember them atm and there aren't very many anyway. This kind of research is hard to do correctly and difficult to get funded.

My favorite theory is that there is some biological event, during or shortly after pregnancy, that causes one to turn out gay, and that the probability of this event occurring is influenced by genetics.

HisGraceFillsMe

I think AMB has a good point. The Bible says that sin is sin, and every sin is the same in God's eyes. So really, homosexuality and things like cheating/stealing/whatever are the same.

The point is, if you believe that Jesus is the son of God, and that He died for your sins, you're forgiven. Period. Not to say that God is "fire insurance", or that it gives you license to sin or do whatever you want. But I mean...we shouldn't be able to view our sins as "lesser sins" than that of someone else's, because according to God they're exactly the same.

Jesus died for EVERYONE, not just straight people.

Also, I have to wonder, given some gay people's parents, why they would choose to be gay. Parents kick kids out and/or disown them...who would choose that?

AMB2005

Actually, I meant that at least in the OT, homosexuality was on the lower scale of wrongs, "uncleanliness", referring to ritual purity for Jews, which was later absolved by Paul for the rest of the Christians.

Any references to "homosexual sin" in the NT doesn't refer to love between two gay people. It refers to worshipping pagan gods, rape, etc.

ThisCouldBeHeavn

Right, but it does leave open the possibility of some type of thus far "incurable" psychological condition.

AMB2005

Woah, I thought psychologists abandoned calling homosexuality a disorder back in the 70's...you know, when they stopped locking them up, giving them shock treatment, drugs, etc to cure it. This is the 21st century, you know.

I suppose I'm a little biased, studying other cultures where homosexuality isn't looked down upon, that it just baffles me why people would consider homosexuality unnatural, a choice, or something that needs to be fixed.

Only a small gamut of sex has ever been about procreation. Sex has far more uses, you know...

ManOfFaith

Tolerant? Sure, you've been civil. Open-minded? Not quite. I see what you do. You draw clear lines between the political left and the right, us and them. You compliment every poster that agrees with you because you feel they've joined your "team" in this debate. I believe in the First Amendment and you're entitled to your own opinion, but it's just hilarious to me that you can claim to have an open mind after all you've said. (I mean, c'mon, you basically told someone he's too young to make an informed decision. You're not his mom.)

ManOfFaith

For some reason, I couldn't quote the post I was replying to, but that was aimed at tokdoc. Here's one of those you're so fond of, so you'll know that despite what I said I can pretend we're still cool.

tokdoc

Wow-you college bound kids are very pedantic . Okay, I'll substitute polite and well-reasoned for "tolerant". And I do believe I've been more civil than many of the opposing posters, who sound angry and "intolerant" of the views I'm espousing.

There is clearly a bit of a culture war going on at present in our country. Traditional views (i.e. wait until marriage, homosexuality is a sin, a two-parent home is better for kids than a one-parent home (all other things being equal) etc. are viewed as outdated and intolerant. I just hope I've taught my daughter well enough that she isn't swayed by this constant assault when she gets to college. Time will tell.

tokdoc

AMB-It was called an ABOMINATION in the OT.

silence_kit

Somehow this was missed (from page 9):

How do you suggest we do that? This would involve making a lot of stuff up! You can't hope to describe the world without doing observation and/or experiment.

Sorry, this is as good as it gets. Note: it has proven to be very useful so far!

Alix2012

Most of us are in college, this isn't the HS kids forum - what you view as "constant assault" is just people rationally discussing their opininos, and I'm afraid your daughter will be exposed to that during college, unless you're sending her off to Bob Jones University.

This 1950's image of Mom, Dad, Junior and Sis eating apple pie at the Church picnic and people not talking about homosexuality and sex because they were too "sinful" is over. The divorce rate has been 50% for most of our youth, half of us grew up with blended families or single/divorced parents. 95% of Americans have pre-marital sex, and we don't go around preaching about sins. Most of us have a friend, family member or other aquaintance that is LGBT. As you can read, most of the religious Christian members on this forum, like HisGraceFillsMe and ManofFaith manage to remain religious while not bashing those who aren't.

Cause what you're saying is a significant percentage of the population is lying - I suppose all the homoesexual animals are lying too, they must be in on the conspiracy. They must enjoy being ridiculed and treated like 2nd class citizens, having their parents kick them out of the house and disown them, and for those like Matthew Shepard, being savagely beaten, tortured and killed by those loving Christian folks.wait...not sure what you're studying, but the trial-and-error method is what works for biomedical research, you don't pull cures for diseases out of your ass or make them up. But if you've got the underlying rules of the universe sloshing around your head, feel free to share.

silence_kit

sorry . . . this manual says that they are a broken, hell-bound people . . . gotta follow what the book says!