student2407

The general mindset in my community (school, friends, parents) is that there is no need to apply to "match" or schools outside of the University of California. The reasons behind this are that:
-UCs are some of the best schools in the nation, from both private and public
-There is one application to all UCs and no supplements.
-UC cost is cheaper (for CA residents)
-UC are closer to home, and that is good for you (I personally don't care)
-Privates are expensive and not worth it unless they are "top" schools

I'm in the summer of my Junior year and have been following that philosophy since I started High School, but now I am beginning to question it. Why would there be thousands of universities out there and only a few UCs? I guess one reason is that even the "worst" UC (where I'm guaranteed admission) ranks it the top 100 (yes rankings aren't everything, but stil). My plan was to apply to a bunch of top schools (Harvard through Cornell) as reach schools and then depend on the UC system as my "match schools" (UCLA, UCSD, UCSB, USD).

So what do you guys think? Is it worth it to spend the time and money to first research and then apply to other private schools? My main concerns in finding a college are:
-A good price (whether in tuition or aide).
-Good law school and higher paying job opportunities afterward.

barrk123

If you are a national merit finalist USC is half price

student2407

USC meets all of the family need and is a "top school", so it is on my shortlist. I'm thinking more of places like Boston U or NYU (just two I saw pamphlets from at school).

ucbalumnus

Non-reach private (or out of state public) schools may be worth considering if

(a) you like them better than your safeties, and
(b) they have a reasonable or better chance of being affordable

Note that some out of state public schools like Minnesota, NCSU, and Virginia Tech have out of state list prices comparable to UC in state list price. Some other public and private schools offer very large merit scholarships for high GPA/rank/test-score/NM students, so their net costs may be low after applying those scholarships.

Check net price calculators at the various web sites to get an idea of need-based aid. Then see if there are any large merit scholarships available.

barrk123

BU and NYU are known for giving horrible aid.

Privates: BC, U of Miami, Lehigh, Rice, Notre Dame, Rochester (I don't know about their aid but they are good schools)

ucbalumnus

BU and NYU do not have very good reputations for need-based financial aid (check the net price calculators). You may have to aim for large merit scholarships (not just admission) if you apply there.

bluebayou

Not necessarily. For the vast majority of middle class students, the Ivies and other top schools would cost you less out of pocket. (Their need-based aid is that good, and UCs do not meet full need.)

If you have the #'s for the Ivies, BU will likely give you merit money, but they do not meet full financial need. NYU gives money to kids that they really want, and loans to everyone else. Miami also offers merit money, but does not meet full need.

Also consider LACs. You should decide what kind of environment you desire for four years. City, suburban rural? Large, small? Greek? Big time D1 football? Coop? Service-oriented/

For law school admissions, the only things that matter is gpa+lsat score.

SlitheyTove

OP, depending on your stats, your budget, and your EFC, you might find that out of state schools are cheaper (and sometimes better) than UCs. It's an excellent plan to apply to a variety of places, along with the UCs.

This is exactly what many California students do....and it's needlessly limiting. You're applying to those "top" private schools because you've heard of them. What you need to do is to look for places that are a good fit for you. As bluebayou suggests, maybe you'd prefer a small liberal arts college rather than a big university. Or you want schools in a city, or one that includes a senior capstone thesis, or one where you have a requirement to take on internships.

Think about publics, too, because some will give enough aid to bring the cost down below UC prices. For example, a young friend is headed off to The Ohio State University in engineering this coming fall, turning down several UCs in favor of paying about $20k a year at Ohio. His family will be saving about $10k a year over what they'd be paying for UC, even at in-state prices.

student2407

First of all, thanks for the help.

Again I understand that "top schools" (the definition I'm using is better than or similar ranking to UC Berkeley) give great financial aid and would probably be cheaper than a UC.

Generally the "range" of schools (again ranking are not everything, but still useful) are from UC Riverside (at the bottom) to UC Berkeley (at the top). I can't see myself going to a school "worse" than that unless some special circumstance (and I do have the grades to support that, gpa 4.0++, 1st act 33), and schools above that are crazy hard to get in (I'm still applying to a bunch though).

BU and NYU are just two random schools from which I saw shiny brochures. I'd of course do my own research into which schools offer the best money.

My question is, is doing all that research worth it?

ucbalumnus

It could be, but it depends on your preferences (academic and non-academic) about what kind of school you want to go to (e.g. intended or possible majors, big versus small school, location, etc.) and your financial constraints (e.g. would schools with much lower than UC cost of attendance be tempting, to save money for law school?).

4.0 GPA and 33 ACT would get some guaranteed large merit scholarships at some private and out of state public schools, and put you in the running for non-guaranteed large merit scholarships at some others.

student2407

How much lower than a UC could a college in my above stated "range" cost (total cost)? I'm going of off the online calculator but a UC would cost about ~$20,000. On the other hand say Harvard (using their calculator) would cost ~$10,000. That is a 50% difference and would seriously impact my decision. The thing is, could a college (in the "range") that is not a "top" school cost just as little?

As for my preferences: I'm not really sure one what major I want (planning on figuring that out this summer. I'm leaning towards something like Econ or PolSci that is good for pre-law and has some other real world job value (if I were to change my mind about law in the future). I want to go to a larger schools near a large city or in a suburban college town. I don't really care about sports, but having some "school spirit" is nice. UCs basically offer those things. I don't really know of any other preferences I feels strongly about enough to make a major impact on my decision.

ucbalumnus

An example is University of Alabama Tuscaloosa, which appears to be roughly comparable to UC Riverside in overall and economics reputation (but a lower reputation in political science), where you would get the full out of state tuition scholarship (needs 3.5 GPA and 32 ACT) to give a remaining cost of attendance of about $14,000 per year. Not as low as what you say Harvard says for you, but lower than what you say UC says for you.

There are other schools where your stats may be competitive for a large non-guaranteed merit scholarship, like the Park scholarship at NCSU.

Law school does not require any particular undergraduate major.

bluebayou

That has to be your call. How badly do you want to go away to college? Or, not? A lot of kids prefer to attend college close to home, while others want to get away.

Private colleges have a lot of perqs, but they generally cost more.

student2407

I'm basically neutral at whether I stay in CA or go. The only advantage I see is that for holidays it might be easier to go home. I'm not really the home-sicky type though, as I've spent months without my parents on trips.

Also UC Riverside is on the far lower end of my "range", it is my back-back-up school as I'm guaranteed admission there.

ucbalumnus

It does look like cost would be your main motivation to look at private and out of state public schools other than the super selective schools that are already on your application list. This likely means looking for full tuition to full ride merit scholarships (guaranteed-for-stats if you want more safeties, non-guaranteed competitive otherwise) which leave a remaining cost of attendance significantly lower than the UC net costs you are finding at schools which you would be willing to attend.