Juvenis

Both in general and for premeds. On the flipside, are they collaborative?

ReesesPieces

Both are fairly competitive, but UPenn more so.

sbh777

collaborative...with each other?

And yes they are both competitive. I personally prefer Duke over UPenn, particularly because of its entrepreneurial environment, but most people here will probably say Penn is better/more competitive.

Juvenis

^ No, are the STUDENTS in Duke and in Penn competitive/collaborative with each other. Meaning, are the students in Duke and/or Penn the types who will either typically help each other or establish personal competition with each other when it comes to school and grades.

happyman2

As a pre med at Duke, I can personally attest to the fact that the atmosphere the university tries to foster is one of intimate collaboration. As far as Penn is concerned, I am under the impression that it is a little more cut throat in this regard. @sbh777, I don't think many people on college confidential consider Penn to be even remotely better than Duke. OP, for pre med in particular, you would be hard pressed to find a better school than Duke. Several schools can lay claim to being just as good, but I don't think that you would find any school that is objectively better. Medicine (and pre med) is Duke's forte, and I would strongly encourage you to consider going to Duke over just about any school if you are in fact committed to medicine.

beyphy

very 10char

happyman2

beyphy, i think the OP meant to ask how much internal competition exists between pre medical students at these schools, are you implying that they are very

beyphy

my answer was meant to be a joke in response to the topic title. As for competitiveness or collaborativeness, that's hard to say. I'd imagine that Penn isn't that cut-throat, but i can't give arguments as to why since i didn't go there. Can't say anything about Duke for similar reasons.

45 Percenter

Medicine (and pre-med) is also Penn's forte, with its #2 ranked Medical School, #1 ranked Nursing School, top-ranked Dental and Veterinary--which does an extraordinary amount of cutting-edge research related to human medicine--schools, second or third highest amount of NIH research funding in the country, world-renowned Wistar Institute and #1-ranked Children's Hospital of Philadelphia on or adjacent to campus, and top-10 hospital on campus. All of which encourage and foster participation by Penn undergrads in medical and related research.

But the bottom line is that Penn and Duke are quite comparable for pre-med, and any attempt to distinguish between them beyond that for pre-med (including competitiveness of pre-meds, etc.) is, quite frankly, silly and meaningless.

You should choose between these schools based solely on personal preference and fit, as determined by the entire institutions (campus, location, social life, general "feel," etc.), and not attempt to determine how many angels each of these schools can balance on the head of a pin when it comes to their pre-med students. They're both extraordinary for pre-meds, and you can't go wrong either way.

happyman2

Very comparable, definitely. However, Duke does better objectively at sending kids to med school (pre med in particular is Duke's forte).

45 Percenter

Do you have reliable, objective data to back that up? And by that, I mean an apples-to-apples comparison of the success rates of comparable applicants from Penn and Duke in applying to the same medical schools.

Anything other than that is meaningless, as would be your statement that "Duke does better objectively at sending kids to med school."

Again, to attempt to characterize one of these two schools as categorically "better" than the other for pre-med students is the height of silliness. Do you actually believe that medical schools--and especially the top ones other than perhaps Duke, itself--would accept an applicant from Duke over a comparable applicant from Penn, merely because the former goes or went to Duke? If you do, you definitely need to stop guzzling that Blue Devil Kool-Aid for a while.

Juvenis

okay lol idk whether the "which school is better for medical school" debate was just a side argument or a misunderstanding of my thread. if the latter, then listen to happyman2 because that's what I meant. Carry on. (Personally, since the two are so similar in caliber I thought it was pointless to compare them in the pre-med sense.)

dblazer

pre-med, go Duke

happyman2

45 percenter, I think a comparable applicant at Duke would be better advised on how to apply to med schools successfully. Do you really think it's possible to show data comparing applicants with the exact same scores? Of course not. I can tell you objectively that Duke's success rate is higher than Penn's. I leave the burden of disproving that to you.

45 Percenter

Naturally you do, you're a DUKE student! This is nothing more than your unabashedly biased and narrowly informed opinion, based solely on your experience at Duke, with no knowledge of the pre-med advising--or success--at Penn. And even your experience with Duke's pre-med advising is rather limited--you've only completed your freshman year.

You're in no position to opine authortatively that Duke is better for pre-meds than Penn--or any other top schools--ESPECIALLY since you have no relevant hard data to back that up.

Gimme a break! The burden of proof is clearly on YOU! You're the one claiming authoritatively--and "objectively"--that one top school has a higher med school success rate than the other. "Objectively" means based on actual relevant and incontrovertible DATA or FACTS. So put up or shut up!

Seriously though, these are both fantastic schools for pre-meds, and the choice between them should be based on overall personal fit and preference, and NOT based on some silly, baseless claim that one is "objectively" better for premeds than the other. Especially coming, as it does, from a biased Duke partisan whose entire experience consists of completing his freshman year.