Pizzagirl

Agree with Hunt - and also, in hindsight, when I took the wise advice to back off, they came up with EC's that were more authentically and genuinely them - and that shone through (IMO) in apps. They were right not to listen to me say, "You write well - you should go out for the school newspaper" or whatever.

MAsteve

What bother? They all accept the Common Application, so applying to them is no more bothersome than any other selective college.
I think there is a lot of rationalizing going on because so many students are rejected by these colleges. Yes, many students get fine educations and wonderful career opportunities from other colleges. But that does not alter the fact that these schools have a long history of providing both.

777Blue77

I'm tired of people who always complain about the cost of some highly selective schools. I'm talking about people WHO HAVE NOT BEEN ADMITTED that complain about the price. You should at least GET IN and see the financial aid package you receive before worrying about whether or not you can afford it.

maxwell123

"If you have a degree from Harvard or Yale, you're going to get a high-paying job"

Seriously? you think its a magic ticket? What about people who go to Harvard or Yale who become teachers? or nurses? or hundreds of other careers that don't pay in the six figures? It all depends on how hard you work and the opportunities you take advantage of, and what you want to do. Sure people might be impressed by the name on your resume, but after your first job, its all about your experiences that matter.

sally305

@MAsteve: It's not "just" checking a box on the Common App. Most colleges have a supplement with unique questions and essay prompts. All of this takes time.

And it is hardly "rationalizing" to use facts to disprove the "Ivy-is-better" list. Remember, there are eight schools in the athletic conference (yes, let's call it what it is--a loose affiliation that has somehow attained mythic brand status). In addition to the kids who have their hearts set on an Ivy each year, many, many students turn down one of them for another college or university that better fits their needs and interests. Hard to believe, I know--but true.

Bill73

"If you have a degree from Harvard or Yale, you're going to get a high-paying job"

I highly doubt that all the history, sociology, and english majors at both schools are landing at Goldman Sachs or McKinsey.

Although some employers can hire smart people with unrelated degrees and train them, there are a lot more employers that need to hire people with degrees in accounting, nursing, engineering, and computer science for jobs in those fields.

YaleGradandDad

I don't agree with this but you might be surprised by the large number of history, sociology, and english majors that are getting Goldman Sachs and McKinsey type jobs from these schools and other top tier universities and LACs. These employers value the liberal arts model and find that they can easily train a bright person with good critical thinking skills.

sally305

^^Actually these companies aggressively recruit Yale and other Ivy grads:

http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/20...s-have-doubts/

Maybe around NYC these companies' names impress people, but for a lot of us they have some pretty strong negative connotations. I'd be pretty disappointed if that was where my child ended up working after receiving a liberal arts degree, ginormous salary or not.

Pizzagirl

I work with a lot of McKinsey people in the course of my job. I could have easily been one myself if I had taken turn A rather than turn B in the course of my career. They're great people and one of them is my absolute BFF in the world. But they are just people. They put their pants legs on one at a time. They have good days at work and bad days at work. They have good days at home and bad days at home. Could we all please stop idealizing those positions? To listen to CC talk, you'd think that all these people do is go to work in glamorous offices, apply their minds to stimulating, exciting intellectual problems all day, and then watch the money flow in. It's work. That's why they pay you for it. There are innumerable excel spreadsheets, unreasonable clients, tight deadlines, conflicts with co-workers, blah de blah blah -- these are just jobs. That's all. They are well paying jobs and do have a lot of intellectual stimulation - but frankly the last 10 exchanges my McKinsey counterparts and I have had regarding a given project we are working on have been along the lines of "get a load of this client" and "can you believe this nonsense" and "who's buying whom a drink after this is over"?

maggiedog

I must have missed the prestige boat...never heard of McKinsey

coureur

>>...it's the essays that make all the difference. It's what makes the kid interesting and stand out. All the EC's and grades and SAT's blend together after awhile.<<

I bet at some point the essays do too. Except for a handful of true literary gems each year that relate compelling life stories (similar in frequency to truly astonishing world-class ECs), I'm thinking the large ocean of merely excellent essays that top schools regularly get kind of all merge into a blur.

Once all the true geniuses have all been put in the Accept pile and they start filling out the rest of their incoming class from the crowd of the merely outstanding, I don't know how HYPSM, et al make their choices.

tk21769

I wouldn't be surprised at all.
In recent years, among Harvard College graduates who directly enter the workforce, as many as 47% have gone into consulting and financial-sector jobs. Is this a good thing? Harvard's President shared concerns in a commencement address several years ago.
(Harvard Graduates Head to Investment Banking, Consulting | News | The Harvard Crimson)

Certainly, it is nice to have the choice of a high-paying job. It must be good for alumni giving. I would agree with YaleGradandDad, their success in finding jobs at these firms speaks well of the liberal arts model. Still, if a college is doing a great job of motivating & preparing students in the liberal arts and sciences, one might expect more of them to choose careers in academia, publishing, government, urban planning, secondary education, or science research.

coureur

>>Still, if a college is doing a great job of motivating & preparing students in the liberal arts and sciences, one might expect more of them to choose careers in academia, publishing, government, urban planning, secondary education, or science research.<<

I'm generally a pro-Ivy League guy, but I do wish that it weren't the case that so many Ivy grads chase Wall Street careers. Every year Dartmouth has a graduating senior or two finish with a perfect 4.0 GPA and get named as valedictorian(s). This year was a little unusual because four graduates all achieved that honor. All four of them are liberal arts (Economics) majors, and sadly all four of them have accepted Wall Street finance jobs.

TheDartmouth.com: Valedictorians to pursue finance

annasdad

Yes, and if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

But a very large proportion of the students at any highly selective college - Ivy or otherwise - grew up as children of privilege, with upper-middle-class or better parents, and accustomed to all the very best of everything. Is it really so surprising that so many of them opt for the high-paying careers?

sally305

^^No, it's not surprising, but it is disappointing. One would hope that there would be more idealism and innovative thinking coming out of our best universities. Maybe that's why some of the more entrepreneurial types (Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, etc.) drop out.

And it's ironic that so many people who put the Ivies and other top-tier universities on a pedestal are being taught by professors who received their undergraduate degrees at LACs or "lesser" public or private universities. I guess I'd rather have my child go elsewhere for his undergrad and then go on to get a PhD and teach history than major in history at an Ivy and wind up a hedge fund manager.