rbouwens

Also, I was deferred from two "top unis," so I must have "what it takes" :P

PAGRok

I love college admissions, loved visiting schools, loved researching schools and trying to find if I would fit there, loved writing my essays, loved helping my friends find schools, loved interning at a private college counselors office, loved working with my high school counselor and discussing the field of college counseling. I even wrote about the college application process in an essay to Yale! My dream is to be a college admissions officer at a prestigious school such as the Ivies, UChicago (where I'm going next year), or any of the top schools or LAC's. I really enjoyed reading "Admission" by Jean Korelitz about a Princeton admissions reader and her life and how she reads applications and must deal with the stress of her job and home life.

juillet

Yup, I freely admit that I am obsessed with the Ivies. It's everything about them that I love - the prestige, academics, students, architecture, exclusiveness, the "wow" factor, the students' pride/loyalty, residential colleges (in the case of Yale,) the towers, the fireplaces. I know this is SUPER shallow and all, but I'm telling the truth. I'm only human.

It's not shallow, but do recognize that there are non-Ivy universities that have similar qualities - other elite universities like Stanford and MIT also have similar characteristics, many small liberal arts colleges have those characteristics as well, and even some prestigious public universities have them (like the College of William and Mary or University of Virginia). Also recognize that some Ivies don't have what you think they do - for example, I go to Columbia and I wouldn't say the undergrad students have a whole ton of "Columbia pride" or loyalty. It's more to the city of New York, I would say. Perhaps I'm wrong - I'm not an undergrad, after all - but that's my perspective. (I would also say that compared to my top 100 but not-an-Ivy SLAC, their social life is mediocre at best. They're super stressed out!) We also don't have too many towers or turrets. The architecture here is nothing like Princeton's, Yale's, or Harvard's.

I attend an Ivy League university for graduate school (Columbia) and please be warned, the graduate experience is NOTHING like the undergrad experience. I do love Columbia as an academic institution - it's a great place to be a graduate student, academically speaking (administratively, not so much) but don't shoot for Ivies for grad schools because you want the undergrad experience. You won't get it. More importantly, you won't *want* it anymore. And I actually work very closely with the undergrads as a graduate hall director and live in the undergrad residence halls as part of my job. ALso recognize that the best graduate schools in your field may be at flagship publics or other non-ivy private schools.

rbouwens

^ I always wondered if grad students could live with undergrads haha!! And now that I'm going to a small school, I'll probably always wonder what life is like "on the other side." I mean, Beloiters have talked about taking trips up to UMadison for the social scene (that's what I call it) and I've mentioned making trips to UChicago, but I guess I'm trying to find that "magical" place. I mean, my friend visited Harvard, Dartmouth, Cornell, and MIT and the only place he was excited about was MIT. he didn't even apply to Dartmouth or Cornell! I thought he was nuts for a while. I think Beloit will be that magical place, but I also think a school like UChicago could be that place as well. I had my heart set on them until I was rejected in March, but I knew I wouldn't get in anyway.

And since I've never stepped foot on an Ivy school or sat in on one of their classes, I think I'll always wonder. Even my horrible night at UChicago didn't stop me from goggling over it, though. The girls I stayed with were rich snobs and all they wanted to do was go to a stupid party.

I honestly think I'm searching for something that doesn't exist: perfection. That's gotta be it.

suprafreshkid

The ivies that I actually see myself at are Brown, Cornell and Yale. There other wonderful colleges just like ivies, like Amherst, John Hopkins, WUSTL, Caltech, MIT, Wesleyan, Williams, Duke, Bryn Mawr, Banard, Wellesley, Northwestern, U Chicago and many more. These colleges have many of the same qualities as ivies, but I don't why people have to be so obsessed with them on this website. MIT provides same academics and alumni connection as Harvard. You don't have to settle with an Ivy League college just to be happy. You can be happy at any college like those still get almost the same or more opportunities as any Ivy League at any of those schools.

rbouwens

^ I wonder how many Ivy students would say that....

Blckmgc

Untrue. Lumping all these together weakens your point that you could get an Ivy education elsewhere. HYP, Columbia, Penn, and Brown are of similar size to schools like Northwester, UChicago, Duke, Johns Hopkins, and WUSTL. Dartmouth is small and isolated enough to be in many ways more like the LACs: Amherst, Williams, Wellesley, etc. Cornell is comparable to a large public and is the most different from the other Ivies.

And I don't know why you and so many other people on CC lump MIT and Caltech in with the other universities. They're tech universities. Your statement comparing MIT and Harvard is utterly useless for someone majoring in English.

Alexandre

blckmgc, MIT is not a "tech" university and should not be compared to Caltech, which is almost entirely a tech school. Anybody interested in majoring in Business, Economics, Linguistics, Political Science, Philosophy and Psychology shopuld seriously consider MIT. The Institute is ranked anywhere between #1 and #10 in all of those Humanities and Social Sciences. The only majors that are not strong/offered at MIT are the Anthropology, Classics, English, History, Languages and Sociology. Those majors attract what? 15%-20% of undergrads at most LACs and universities?

Secondly, I am pretty sure that suprafreshkid was referring to quality of education, not to identical overall campus feel, when he rightfully stated that there are many universities that are just as "wonderful" as the Ivies. As I posted above, I can think of more than 25 LACs and universities that offer a similar quality undergraduate academic experience.

goldenboy8784

Alexandre, MIT might have a strong reputation at the graduate level in this areas but it doesn't have the neccessary concentration of undergraduates interested in this area for a prospective undergraduate to turn down universities like Columbia and Duke who have equally renowned departments in these areas and provide a much larger peer group who are interested in these subjects.

Business and Economics are a different story. For the humanities, I would recommend high school seniors to stick with the Ivies/Stanford/Duke/Northwestern/UChicago of the world.

Fickle

You just spammed the UChicago forum by saying, in what appears to be an attempt to trash the school's academic standing, you got deferred with a 22 ACT score. So, no, I don't think you have what it takes.

Alexandre

goldenboy, a department that is strong at the graduate level will generally be strong at the undergraduate level. There are exceptions of course, such as:

1. At some universities, certain departments/disciplines (Architrcture, Business, International Relations, Nursing, Public Affairs to name a few) only offer degrees to graduate students

2. Some universities have tiny endowments and therefore cannot afford providing undergrads with adequate resources

Where MIT is concerned, in subjects such as Linguistics, Philosophy, Political Science and Psychology, neither of the two points above is applicable

This said, I definitely agree that for students who are only interested in the humanities or the social sciences (save Econ), attending a LAC, Ivy or top university makes better sense than attending MIT. But some students really love the MIT culture and curriculum, and for those students, attending MIT for a field such as Linguistics or Political Science can make perfect sense.

rbouwens

Fickle, I was simply trying to prove something: "Chance Me" threads are an absurdity in themselves, and test scores are not important at all. They have nothing to do with measuring the applicant's abilities. A long time ago, people told me I had no chance at UChicago - well, they weren't exactly right, were they?

I don't understand why or how people can judge other applicants based on the "stats" they post. I can understand the curiosity that comes with wanting to see how much of a chance someone has, but many of the posters in chance thread are jerks. I have experience with that, and I fought back.

And saying that I do not have "what it takes," whichever quality that may be, is not totally credible. ACT gives out numbers, not credible evaluations.

Oh, and you must have "what it takes."

rbouwens

And Alexandre, I'm not sure I agree with you 100%. My dual enrollment prof, who got his BA at UMichigan in anthropology, did not recommend for me to go there. Too big, bureaucracy issues, undergrads 2nd to grads, etc. Their post-grad program is supposed to be "one of the best," however. Those issues are bound to occur at all, if not most, large research unis.

Alexandre

rbouwens, if you are so willing to listen to your professor, why do you still have an Ivy obsession? Do you think Columbia, Cornell, Penn or Harvard have less bureaucracy or focus more on undergrads than Michigan? Those Ivies have between 20,000-25,000 students and are very much research-driven.

Like you said, there is a downside to all large research universities. Any university that has a ratio of 1:2 grad:undergrad is going to have a research driven culture that will take some of the focus away from undergrads. Some Ivies have a 2:1 or even 3:1 grad: undergrad ratio. If this truly is an issue for you, I am surprised you still idolize the Ivies.

This said, Anthropology is not the most common major at most universities. At Michigan, there is ~100 per graduating class. This includes Classical Archaeology, Cultural Anthropology, Biological etc... If you divide it up into actual interest, there is seldom more than 50-60 undergraduate students per graduating class. In concert with a faculty of over 50 professors, classes in anthroplogy at Michigan tend to be small (almost always fewer than 20 students at the intermediate and advanced levels and never greater than 100 students at the intro level). That is the case at most top-rated Anthropology programs.

Where you have overcrowding at larger research universities such as Columbia, Cornell, Harvard or Michigan is in very popular majors, such as Economics, Political Science and Psychology. Those majors will typically have 200 or more students enrolled in intro-level classes and over 30 students in intermediate and advanced level classes.

Your professor definitely did not give you good advice.

Fickle

rbouwens: I agree completely with you that chance threads are meaningless, and usually are just an opportunity for overachievers to show off their stats online and have their egos stroked. But the way you spammed 8-10 threads with your 22 ACT score seemed to imply, "Anyone can get in, considering I got deferred with a 22," rather than what you intended.

However, I still don't think you had a real chance at any top 10 or top 20 schools with a 22... sorry. That's only slightly above the 60th percentile. That's not even going to cut it at most #30-50 USNWR schools, I imagine.