g0ld3n

I wanted to post on this thread, but sakky basically said everything I wanted to say but better.

I fully think he is correct in this endeavor. OP, you're not lying, you have nothing to lose here but to experiment and see how it works for you. The worst that can happen is you won't get the job. If you feel like that is high risk because it is a specific job you would kill for you need to make that personal decision yourself. However, you wanted CC's opinion and my opinion rests with sakky.

I think you should try both. Honestly, sakky's main point is that what you're doing is seriously not as bad as 99.9999% of people within business. Why? Because it isn't a lie, you're automatically more honest than anyone that has outright lied before (which is probably a majority if not super majority of employers - yes I'm definitely stereotyping and generalizing this with zero sources. Bite me).


Go ahead and try it with some of the resumes you send out. See how it goes. Treat it like a science experiment. If you seto be getting noticably positive results with a particular wording of your credentials, stick to it. After all, doesn't that prove you're good at selling something to an interested party?

cc123sb

I'd agree with golden and sakky, except you cannot omit that it was an online MBA program. An online MBA is much different from the traditional MBA (and thus your highly unlikely to get any analyst position--even back office). Stating that you received an online MBA from University of Michigan is more accurate and more honest.

ucbalumnus

Whether they have the right to judge others regarding their ethics does not stop them from doing so. Many people have a double standard in that they take great offense to being lied to or deceived, but have less qualms about lying to or deceiving others. In an employer context, an employee or candidate who deceives an employer is disliked, even if deceptive behavior with respect to outsiders (customers, other firms, governments) is accepted or encouraged.

Nova10

With regards to the University of IL system, it is considered to be perfectly legit to say you graduated from the University of IL regardless of campus. On the diploma it says University of IL in big letters, and in little letters, the campus location. They have been trying to generalize the name University of IL to all the campuses. The campus locations do overlap. The most infamous of these is the University of Illinois at Chicago at Urbana. UIC has a satellite campus at Urbana.

lookingforward

Well, I think you need to take a hard look at what the curriculum and experience at a top MBA program entails. See it's not just the reading and papers- it's face time with well respected profs, plus the team projects, some quite lengthy and involved, and for real-life clients. Not to mention the peer contacts you make. Online is a poor sister.

MBA's don't pay for themselves just for having the paper. Many companies will split the cost wth you, after x years employment- and you can do a great program at night.

KnowledgeKick

Thank you for all of the replies. I'm glad that a few of you agreed with my school of thought. As I mentioned in previous posts, I currently have an entry-level, back-office, analyst position at a BB.

I work full-time in the tri-state area, which is the capitol of Finance, so actually getting up and moving to somewhere like Michigan is out of the question.

I am simply trying to establish the best credentials in the most sensible and cheapest way. I am NOT going to be able to attend Wharton. Furthermore, most of the other "top" programs aren't near me locationally.

So...what is the problem with an online degree from a REPUTABLE school? I understand that an MBA is about face-time and connections. I GET THAT. I'm more concerned with how it looks on paper. Why should I explicitly state that it was (in this scenario) University of Michigan's ONLINE program? I know that employer's will look negatively upon that, so why would I include it on my resume? I would have no ethical qualms about omitting it because if U of Michigan feels that the work is deserving of a normal MBA degree then why should I discount it and hurt my chances?

lookingforward

It looks silly on paper because it's off base. It's not a particular program that can lend itself to book learning and home thinking.

You identify it's their online program because... it is their online program. If you know your employers would look down on an online "degree," doesn't that give you the slightest clue that it isn't up to their standards? If you are this worried about all this, doesn't that suggest it's not the real thing? If you don't get the difference, maybe we can't explain better. If you are loking for our endorsement, fugettaboutit.

So, this becomes an ethics issue. If you are so all fired up to get an mba, do it right, build yourself long-term hireability. If you don't want to do it right, save your money.

There are plenty of good programs in the tri-state area. Doesn't have to be Wharton.

ps. the fact that Mich implies it's the same is meant to entice you. That doesn't make it real world or ensure the best competitive positon.

sakky

True enough, but I would then harken back to the OP's respond that you may also not be hired if you're being entirely truthful.

Let's be perfectly honest: people are routinely hired and fired for a wide bevy of arbitrary reasons. Consider some of the weirdest reasons for people being fired, including a waitress who was fired for shaving her head to express solidarity with her cancer-ridden father or the Cal State Fullerton lecturer who was fired for following her Quaker religious beliefs in not signing a loyalty oath. And that includes only cases of people being fired for provably silly reasons, much less those who are never even hired in the first place for reasons that nobody can prove. I therefore agree that while you might be disqualified from some jobs because some employers would somehow feel "deceived" (a point to which I shall return to below), I would also argue that you would surely also be disqualified from other jobs by being entirely truthful. It is ultimately an empirical question as to which is worse.

Besides, I believe it has been shown that women who use male-sounding shortened versions of their names (e.g. Chris rather than Christine, Alex rather than Alexandra, Pat rather than Patricia) or those with ambiguously unisex names (e.g. Taylor, Robin, Riley, Peyton, Jordan) receive more interview callbacks than women with distinctly female names. Indeed, I know of one woman who legitimately goes by the name of 'Alex' in her everyday life who reports the "shock, confusion or outright disbelief" that recruiters express upon finally conversing with her face-to-face or on the phone after numerous email exchanges and discovering that she's a woman. I'm not sure what's worse: companies refusing to hire you out of a sense of 'deception' when they finally discover your gender during the interview, or companies never even calling you back in the first place because of sexism?

lookingforward

And, you may no tbe hired if you pick your nose and spit, despite having some rationale or other. Let's try to stay on track.

sakky

I'm afraid that I can't agree with that either. An online MBA program is still an MBA program and seems to me is perfectly legitimately to list it as such.

And I must ask again: where exactly is the deception? UM-Flint is a fully legitimate part of the University of Michigan. Indeed, that's why it is called The University of Michigan-Flint. Like I said, if the problem is brand confusion between UMAA and the other UM's, well, frankly that's something that UMAA should have resolved back in the 1950's when the other UM campuses were being established. UMAA should have insisted that those other campuses be prohibited from invoking the UM brand (in the same manner that UMAA obviously would vociferously object if Michigan State were to attempt to use the UM brand). But that's all water under the bridge now. Whether we like it or not, the fact is UM-Flint (along with UM-Dearborn) are indeed legitimate members of UM. Anybody who feels deceived by that frankly needs to learn more about the structure of the University of Michigan system.

sakky

Um, I believe my statements are entirely apropos: the question on the table is whether your candidacy might be damaged by any suspicions of 'deception' from employers. My opinion is, any such damage, if any at all, is far outweighed by the myriad other arbitrary reasons why somebody may not be hired.

ECAdmStudent

@sakky, also consider the additional risk of getting terminated after hiring - if the employer found out that the OP didn't fully represent himself and had reasonable grounds to suspect that the deception was intentional, they would have more than enough justification to fire the OP.

sakky

While I agree with everything you said, my response to that is: so what? Sure, the implication of the UM brand is meant to entice. Sure, the program might not be "the real thing", however defined. But hey, let's face it, the entire rationale of marketing is to entice customers to buy something that may not be "the real thing". Snow White and the Huntsman is a mediocre movie (as evidenced by rottentomatoes) with a cracker-jack sequence of trailers and therefore is poised to be one of the highest-grossing movies of the year. Yet I don't see anybody accusing Universal Pictures of lacking ethics. That's just legitimate, hard-nosed, savvy marketing. That's a fair play.

Similarly, I don't see why the exact same philosophy won't apply to somebody using an online MBA program from UM-Flint to market themselves in a way to entice potential employers by saying that they have an MBA from UM. That's also a fair play. Frankly, probably every company has some people who probably would never have been hired if not for savvy self-promotion.

sakky

And that's when he might have grounds to sue for wrongful termination if they attempt to fire him for cause, because at no point did he ever 'misrepresent' himself. He legitimately has a degree from UM. Again, it's not a degree from UMAA, but he's not claiming such a degree. UM-Flint, whether we like it or not, is indeed a legitimate part of UM. If that employer felt deceived by the UM brand, well, to put it bluntly, they should have done their homework and found out what the UM brand really entails. That's their own stupid fault for not being informed.

But to your larger point, sure, I agree that plenty of people are fired for any number of arbitrary reasons: witness the Quaker teacher referenced above who was fired for refusing to sign a loyalty oath in accordance with her religious beliefs or the lifeguard who was fired for rescuing a man who was drowning outside of the lifeguard's assigned zone. {I suppose the moral of the story is that he should have just let the guy drown.} And of course that's just some of the verifiable stories of people being fired for outrageous reasons; undoubtedly plenty of other people are fired every day for reasons that nobody can prove. I would therefore argue that any risk associated with being fired for such 'deception' is miniscule compared to the mountain of other arbitrary reasons why one might be fired.

ECAdmStudent

@Sakky I think that all of us are basing our arguments on opinion without data. Are there any studies or polls out there that ask hiring officers what their opinion on this issue is? I don't have time to investigate at this point.