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Antioch College?

13

Replies to: Antioch College?

  • xiggixiggi Posts: 22,884Registered User Senior Member
    Perhaps a few numbers would be helpful.

    What were the annual expenses for faculty salaries last year? For need based aid in addition to the tuition discount? Do you file a CDS report?

    What is your current endowment?
  • GolfFatherGolfFather Posts: 1,519Registered User Senior Member
    (Antioch) is listed as a CTCL school as well

    Just for the record, CTCL.org is a college admissions advocacy group made up of college counselors. It is not an accreditation organization nor does it evaluate the quality of the schools in the CTCL. The organization does not have any direct ties to the original book. The list is permanent. A college cannot be dropped off because of any kind of bad report.

    CTCL is dedicated to the advancement and support of a student-centered college search process.
    CTCL works to dispel publicly held myths about college choice -- by hosting information sessions nationwide and coordinating outreach efforts with high school counselors.
    Lastly, we support those in college counseling roles who ascribe to a similar philosophy.
    Governed by a voluntary board comprised of college counseling professionals.


    About CTCL | Colleges That Change Lives
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Posts: 3,522Registered User Senior Member
    Why are some of these schools in certain editions of the book and not in others?

    When Colleges That Change Lives was published in 1996, Loren Pope sought to profile a small group of lesser-known, small liberal arts colleges that met his high standards and lengthy criteria for the distinction of being named as a "college that changes lives"—where faculty were dedicated teachers, the learning environment was engaging, and graduates achieved significant and measurable outcomes, in spite of not being nationally recognizable.

    When revising the book in later years, Mr. Pope replaced colleges that had become more well known or those for whom rankings had indeed become a more important part of their admission process with colleges that he thought better fit the focus of the message in his book.
    Mr. Pope passed away in 2008. To keep Loren’s legacy alive and his message current, his family worked with his longtime literary agent to chose a writer to update future editions of Colleges That Change Lives.

    Parents FAQ | Colleges That Change Lives
  • screepingbearscreepingbear Posts: 6Registered User New Member
    @GolfFather... Its true. That being said, I always recommend any student thats engaged in or looking to engage in their college search to look into these colleges. These are some truly excellent schools.

    @OHMomof2.... Selectivity plays a role in determining whether a school is a CTCL school. I think they are not looking for schools that have or tout a high level of selectivity. The book and the organization are indeed separate. The book is a Penguin for profit endeavor while the association is a non profit organization comprised of some dedicated admission professionals. They also provide some great pro tips and advise about finding what school would be a right fit. The group does four large tours all over the US throughout the year; East, West, South, and Midwest.
  • GolfFatherGolfFather Posts: 1,519Registered User Senior Member
    If Post # 34 is in response to me - there is no connection with the book. Well, little connection. That is my point.

    Most people, I feel, are under the impression that CTCL.org is somehow rubber stamping their approval on these schools. They are not.
    Most if not all of the CTCL colleges are probably great places. I'm not saying they're not.

    The point is that the organization is, as I said, an admissions education and advocacy group. Nothing more.
  • GolfFatherGolfFather Posts: 1,519Registered User Senior Member
    Its true. That being said, I always recommend any student thats engaged in or looking to engage in their college search to look into these colleges. These are some truly excellent schools.

    I agree.

    2 more characters.
  • xiggixiggi Posts: 22,884Registered User Senior Member
    Mr. Pope passed away in 2008. To keep Loren’s legacy alive and his message current, his family worked with his longtime literary agent to chose a writer to update future editions of Colleges That Change Lives.

    In so many words, the organization lost its leader and his vision, and a bunch of amateurs took over to milk the last drops of benefits and probably profits from what once had some relevance eons ago. What's new?

    There are indeed gems in the list of schools. But inclusion or exclusion for the book is not a proxy for quality, and most definitely not for selectivity. At best, it is a hodgepodge of the good, the bad, and the ugly. The beauty is that anyone can place the schools in the category that fits a bias or an agenda. But remain none the wiser.

    And, fwiw, at the time of his death, Loren Pope was a young ... 98!
  • NewHavenCTmomNewHavenCTmom Posts: 1,684Registered User Senior Member
    @ Xiggi, so how then, does one decide if the schools in the book OR the website are any good? I am a bit confused by it all. Is it safe to say that they schools that are listed in the book WERE of excellent quality in the past, but they MAY not be now?
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Posts: 3,522Registered User Senior Member
    It's safe to say Loren Pope liked them enough to write about what he liked...that's all I ever assume about them. If you get the book, he does explain in some depth what he thinks makes them special. The info is a little dated, though.
  • AnseioAnseio Posts: 63Registered User Junior Member
    I actually attended a CTCL event (foundation, not book). Most of the colleges are indeed tiny (as in half had 800-1200 students, some less), all are liberal arts, and none (except Reed the day I went) were particularly selective.

    These colleges were all too small for me so I didn't really research any of them, but none of them (exception: Reed) are well known. It was my impression that they aren't the top rung but not exactly the worst schools either. They probably have/did have something unique about them that warrants a spot on the list, but they felt like the kinds of schools that decide they aren't going to ever be on top of the rankings so they are going to do one other thing and then only talk about that.

    I would take my cue on the updating from the fact that they still include a school that briefly shut down.
  • xiggixiggi Posts: 22,884Registered User Senior Member
    @ Xiggi, so how then, does one decide if the schools in the book OR the website are any good? I am a bit confused by it all. Is it safe to say that they schools that are listed in the book WERE of excellent quality in the past, but they MAY not be now?

    My take on the old and new listed schools is that being EXCELLENT was not the yardstick, as much as being different (or special as some might like to say) and represent a DIFFERENT proposal from the ultra selective schools. In so many words, the CTCL is the antithesis of the very selective school that comes at a hefty price.

    The above does not equate to thinking that the schools are all bad or all excellent. Some are good, some are truly bastions of excellence, and some are ... well ... just better avoided.
  • NewHavenCTmomNewHavenCTmom Posts: 1,684Registered User Senior Member
    @Xiggi & other posters-- thanks so much. I will take this into consideration. DD14 is currently a junior and still working on her list of schools to apply to. This process can be a daunting one and felt that the CTCL list was a great place to look. I see now that it deserves a far more discerning eye.
  • GolfFatherGolfFather Posts: 1,519Registered User Senior Member
    so how then, does one decide if the schools in the book OR the website are any good?

    You should use whatever criteria you and your child are using to evaluate the merits (or lack thereof) of any other school you are considering.

    Whether a school is part of the CTCL organization or not wouldn’t really persuade me one way or another. Just recognize it for what it is.

    Aside - Do I think the organization intentionally misleads people? Yes. It was only after I asked a specific question one-on-one with the director at one of their events did she explain its mission and purpose.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Posts: 3,522Registered User Senior Member
    I think of the CTCL schools as schools that might share a few characteristics...not as selective, small classes, no TAs, etc. NewHaven, grab a copy from the library. It explains Pope's philosophy and there is a chapter for each school. Think of it as another college guide book.
  • argbargyargbargy Posts: 1,306Registered User Senior Member
    You have to be pretty desperate to go with Antioch College.

    They have a $52M endowment which is good, but they have just committed to 4 classes tuition free which is going to eat into that quite a bit. They wont be getting a full tuition stream for 8 years. And their physical plant is quite old and may have had minimal maintenance the the past years. Coming out of their 'free' period I dont think they will have much pricing power so overall you might be investing your time in an institution that will be starved for funding and which may be shutting down for the 5th time in its history. And you are betting the value of your degree on the SAT scores that the college is going to be able to attract in the future.

    You also have the issue that your degree may be tainted by small schools operating across the country under the Antioch name. I think they are mostly 2-year schools with loose admissions requirement and older students. And the general nuttiness of Antioch's past (their sexual harassment policy got mocked on Saturday Night Live) may well return. The NYT reported that several alumni are encouraging the tenured faculty that weren't rehired to sue, so at the very least there is the possibility of a continuing legal drain on the exchequer.

    Everything about this says it too risky to me. Burning years of your time has an opportunity cost. Especially when the quality of the course work is unknown, the future of the college is unknown, the future reputation of the place is unknown.

    You'd be better off paying for an known quantity.
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