Hlover

@prestige:
i'm glad we have slightly agreed haha
and i certainly would take A and B.

@lfecollegeguy
not all indian students "take all the test and apply to the top schools"
see
Indian Institute of Technology Joint Entrance Examination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

thomaskurian89

Well, I'm an Indian who wants to study math. I can tell you that IITs do NOT get the best students in India. In fact, the JEE (IIT entrance exam) has indirectly created a 'coaching industry' where weak students learn by rote just to get into IIT, and then no longer care about academics (at IIT). Moreover, these students do badly at high school due to stress.

And I can't speak about MIT but IIT is NOT a place where you'd like to major in math.

hampster

applicant pool or student body should or is the sole criterion for why MIT is the better school. The analogy was meant to illustrate why acceptance rate is a misleading figure to rely on and why MIT is more like to have the stronger student body.

Your Berkeley-Michigan analogy is a good point, but the problem is that Michigan doesn't attract the very best applicants like MIT does so even if it has a wider geographic range to select applicants, the applicants that it manages to attract aren't going to be on par with HYP or an MIT. You can compare Berkeley to lower ranked national universities or national liberal arts colleges. Chances are, Berkeley is going to have stronger students even if it doesn't have the geographic diversity of these national schools.

I don't think anyone here is saying that IIT is not a good school. It's just that comparing it to a school like MIT is a bit of a stretch. We're talking about MIT here not some mid-level or even decently good American school.

Also, sure, I'll grant that it's comparing apples and oranges. But comparing MIT to Tokyo University would also be comparing apples and oranges so there's no reason to single out IIT.

rajarshisom

as far as undergraduate education, IIT is by far da better set of colleges

but 4 higher edu, MIT rules

blaw

Sounds like going to IIT for undergrad is like going to Princeton where there is a huge focus on undergrad teaching in science and technology. From what I've heard, IITs produce very few Phd's, more than half the Phd's in India come from IISc in Bangalore.

Dad_of_3

As a graduate of the IIT, albeit 30+ years ago, I have to say that education in the US intrinsically has a lot more flexibility. The average IITian of my era (5 year bachelor's degree) clearly took more courses in Engg than the average MIT undergrad, but in general, our vision was to excel in what was done in class, and there was little emphasis or opportunity to explore beyond. When I look at how my S (sophomore SCS at CMU) is compared to me at age 18, while I could have done differential equations better them him and solved problems in physics text book better than he does, I believe he is much better positioned in both technical and all-around skills that are useful in industry. One point regarding the selectivity - it is not inconceivable that in many high schools in the US, there isn't a single student who really wants to go MIT because there is so much other opportunity that's a better match to the students' interests. In India, there are not that many schools labelled "elite" whose degrees are door-openers. This leads to a much higher number of school kids (or their parents) who seek an IIT admission leading to higher selectivity figures.

I still feel those five years were the among the best of my life, and I have the fondest memories of my learning there, but if a student had the ability to handle either IIT or a top tech school in the US, I would clearly recommend the latter. Cost of course is another issue - I'm sure it's vastly less than the 50 grand or so a year that a US university charges; when I attended it was about 300-400 bucks a year for tuition, room, and board, the bulk being for food.

PS post #35: I was born in Bangalore, and while IISc does have a well established graduate program, your figures about half the PhDs is off.

blaw

Isn't it amazing what a simple Google search can turn up!
Here's some recent data on research papers published from India.

"Among the major countries, India has
one of the largest infrastructures of engineering
and technological institutes (over
2000). It also produces the largest number
of engineering and technology graduates
(over 300,000) every year. Some of
these institutes are very prestigious and
even make it to the list of top universities
in the world1–3. Only a handful of institutes
(IISc and some IITs) among the
major Indian engineering and technological
institutes, however, account for
most of the research output of the country.
Majority of the others, however have
very meagre research output, which is
also reflected in the poor out-turn of
Ph Ds (less than a thousand each year)
from these institutions."

http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug102009/304.pdf

stellardust

Here's what the truth is -

Getting into IIT's is difficult. It's very very difficult. Nowadays, it's become such a craze to go to IIT that coaching institutes have sprung up, where children go and study day and night. Unless you are willing to sacrifice a LOT, and spend every waking moment studying and solving problems similar to ones they might ask, you won't get into IIT. As a result, India's brightest and most hardworking people get into IIT.

Compare this with MIT. You need to be a well rounded individual, and not spend days just poring over books. FACT - It's easier to get into MIT. But that doesn't mean IIT's are better.

The IIT intake is very very good. But their facilities are below par when compared to MIT. But for undergrad studies, there's little difference.
Even once a student enters IIT, he can only pursue his branch related subjects. He can't take up sports, music etc....The course is problem solving oriented, not practical oriented. But the competition is very high. IIT grads can work hard, under pressure, and work intellegently.

I'm in BITS-pilani, another reputed university in India (I think it's at par with IIT's except that we don't recieve that much publicity). I too prepared for IIT entrance for 2 years. I know the rigour involved, and the sacrifices you have to make. I know how even the brightest are outdone by better students.

Any sensible student would choose going to MIT over IIT (if money isn't a factor). But then again, that doesn't mean MIT's better. Cuz after leavin IIT, you'll be really toughened up. I know IITians who love it when they go to MIT, stanford....cuz they enjoy what they're learning, and they realise they're so good at it.

alan007

My honest opinion is this MIT is MIT. You simply cant campare it with IIT. In its own respect, IIT is one of the best technical universities in the world. And 'some' of its graduates are more technically talented than their MIT counterparts. But MIT's mission is not to produce mere engineers with brutish technical ability. MIT produces intellectuals who are taught to integrate their engineering skills with vision. So the comparison really falls short of its intended purpose which is vague as well.

Avinash97620

I agree. The actuall IIT exam is REDICULOUS compared to anything high school students in the US will see. However, it focuses on a LOT of chemistry that one would probably never use as an engineer unless they are a chemical engineer. The math section itself involves pretty high level math and require much critical thinking. Unlike the SAT, however, there is no English section (primarily because this is not that big of a concern to colleges in India). Overall, MIT is better than IIT due to the research and opportunity there. Sure IIT has come a long way, but MIT has made more contributions to mankind and continues to do so on a regular basis. IIT grads usually go off to work in high positions in TATA indicom or some other big company in India.

Avinash97620

The main dividing factor that makes MIT superior is that MIT teaches primarily intuition whereas IIT teaches more technical concepts. MIT is still ranked the best Engineering college in the world (IIT Bombay was below it on the world rankings).
Also, because almost everyone with an education in India becomes an engineer, it is not surprising that India has one of the best engineering schools.

Adversa

MIT is known even in Eastern Europe's abyss XD

nishadpotdar

Hello everyone, i'm an Indian. I scored 95 % or 99 percentile marks in grade 10. I'm currently doin the IB Diploma Programme. IIT Sucks! Believe me you! They admit students on the basis of one test(IIT-JEE). No language proficiency, social service, GPA, or recommendations are checked. I have seen people with no brains, those who can't speak one straight line in english getting into IITs just by preparing for the IIT-JEE 18 hours a day. And their high school percentage is 60%, GPA 1-2, LOL!!!. IIT is d best. HAHAHAHAHA!!!
MIT is the best. MIT is the father of all tech institutes!

arronnie

nishad - People without brains can't get within a mile of IIT, do you know that? You can't just study like crazy and get into IIT. You NEED to be razor sharp with your brains. I have given JEE, and I got 140 out of 486 and was in the Extended Merit List (top 10000 out of 400000 candidates) - proof how tough the exam is. Most students score in the double digits and negatives in that exam.

Even India's second tier engineering entrance exam, the AIEEE, is insanely difficult, though not close to JEE. Still, it makes SAT look like a damp squib in comparison. This exam is given by 900000 - 1 million candidates each year, and again, the average score is around 50 out of 400 and something.

The US institutions may be much better in terms of facilities and professors, I am sure. But IIT's are a badass institution as well. You get in, you are a genius. You get out with a GPA of above 7, you are guaranteed a bright future.

arronnie

Also, nishad, you talk about 60% and stuff - do you know why they get such scores? Because they do not bother to study for the board exams, which in fact require no skill except for rote learning. I spent 5 days studying for the State board exams and got an 84% score, which I am more than impressed with myself for. And you say they can't speak one-two lines of english - do you really think that measures smarts? A person who has grown up in a village with no exposure to the English language will naturally not be able to speak it. And that skill can be picked up very fast.

If there is one thing in my country I am very proud of, it is the IIT's.