ChicagoScholar

What makes you think Harvard is so much better than Chicago in math?

powergrid1990

Look at the quality of students that go to both schools. From there alone you can see Harvard has an edge already. There's NO need to argue more about this. This is actually a no-brainer. When it comes to Mathematics, Harvard is better. Then the next school would probably a toss up among Princeton, Berkeley, MIT, Caltech and Stanford.

ChicagoScholar

It's true that SAT scores are a little higher at Harvard, and most of the Math Olympiad winners end up going to Harvard. But I don't think it's obvious that Harvard has stronger math students. Chicago is one of the only elite schools with a merit scholarship program, so a lot of math majors who would otherwise attend Harvard choose to attend Chicago instead. If you read my earlier posts, you know that Chicago has produced more Fields medalists than Harvard, and a large number of Chicago's Fields medalists were students at Chicago.

That said, I don't think you've really answered my question. What makes Harvard math so much better than Chicago? Your assertion that Harvard has better students is weak at best, and rather than provide a good reason, you blew off the question.

I don't think any of us is qualified to judge the research currently being done at Chicago, and I don't think you understand the significance of the work that mathematicians at Chicago have already done. Why don't you go read about André Weil, Paul Cohen, Antoni Zygmund, and Saunders MacLane, all of whom were professors at Chicago? Go read about the Chicago School of Mathematical Analysis, one of the most important schools of thought of the twentieth century, and then tell me if you still think Harvard is obviously better than Chicago in math.

Before you jump at me for focusing on the research rather than on undergraduate programs, let me point out that math is a research field. Most people who major in pure math in college go to graduate school and become researchers. The best thing you can do as an undergraduate math major is become familiar with the mathematicians in your department. Math majors often want to get involved in a research community as soon as possible. That's why I think it's important to consider the quality of the research at these schools.

I don't know why you disparage Chicago on all of the math threads. I think you're prejudiced against the school for some other reason.

tokenadult

A student reading this thread for advice on where to apply might just as well apply to all of the top six or seven colleges, not knowing in advance which will admit each applicant.

Sheed30

I think it goes: Princeton, Chicago, MIT, Harvard, Berkeley, Stanford, CalTech, Michigan

orchdorkbando

just curious...where would Harvey Mudd fit in to all of this? I know it's not completely comparable, being an LAC...but just a general idea?

powergrid1990

Oh come one. This must be a joke. Harvard's eenrolment yield is 80% and according to the survey which I lost the site but which I will provide as soon as I find it, those 20% that did not accept Harvard's offer have ended up at its rival schools -- Yale, Princeton, Stanford and MIT. Chicago was not even mentioned. Berkeley was though. So, please be realistic. I know Chicago is a fantastic school, but I think you're overrating it.



Well, likewise. I don't think you understand the researches being done at Harvard. But then again, I thought the OP was asking for undergrad which for his case, research is not his top priority in choosing where to spend his undergrad education.


I would pressume that a good majority of them would shift careers and go into applied math jobs such as finance, actuarist or even into investment banking.

PimpDaddy1

I'm not going to get into this whole debate but at the undergrad level, the difference between Harvard, Princeton or an a Chicago or Cornell is minimal.

That said, while this:
"Institute for Advanced Study, which is NOT affiliated with Princeton University" is true, keep in mind that tons of IAS faculty teach courses at Princeton and mentor thesis work (at the undergrad and grad level). It might not be formally affiliated but IAS and Princeton are on great terms and its not as though the IAS isn't a great asset to Princeton students who want it.

ChicagoScholar

No, actually I wasn't joking. I'm not saying that a lot of people admitted to Harvard choose to attend Chicago. I'm just saying that some extraordinary math students choose Chicago over Harvard because we provide very generous scholarships.

I know very little about the latest math research at Harvard, but I recognize that Harvard has contributed greatly to math research over the past hundred years. The purpose of my last post was not to show that Chicago is better than Harvard in math. I have know way of knowing which is better. I'm just saying that your view of Chicago is unfounded.

Actually, Chicago and Harvard are very close. It's not at all obvious that one is better than the other; it isn't a "no-brainer". Mathematicians agree that these are two of the best schools in the world.

ChicagoScholar

PimpDaddy, do you go to Princeton? I have a hard time believing that undergraduates have access to IAS faculty, except possibly through public lectures. Of course I may be mistaken.

PimpDaddy1

I do and there definitely is a decent amount of interaction. A quick perusal of the IAS faculty shows this (Check out: http://www.math.ias.edu/media/SarnakCV.pdf and look at positions, he's still listed as PU prof). I had a grad student advisor when I was Pton and one of her mentors (for her PhD) was at IAS as well. This isn't to say that IAS is pretty much a part of the university but if you want to work with someone there, its definitely a truly wonderful resource to have so very close to campus.

ChicagoScholar

That's pretty cool.

lssd2012

Harvard is just for a bunch of rich, white, elite kids with legacies while UChicago is for the people that come from many backgrounds and worked their ass off to get where they are now. So no, just cuz Harvard has students with better SAT's, doesn't mean that they are smarter. Those students probably went to expensive private schools that had a very intensive SAT prep. Most students from UChicago come from public schools where the education and prep are not as good . Higher SAT's may mean that they are smarter, or it may mean that they had more money for private school.

CountingDown

MIT did a study of top undergrad math programs a few years ago. They listed the following six as first tier, in no particular order:
MIT, Harvard, Chicago, Princeton, Stanford, Berkeley. Caltech, Umich, Cornell, UCLA and NYU were in the next tier.

I can think of lots of reasons why a student accepted to Chicago and Harvard might turn down Harvard, and for reasons not having to do with merit $$.

lssd2012, where on earth did you get this drivel?

awrezy

ChicagoScholar, Elias Stein is not a Fields Medalist.