sakky

Considering the extremely generous financial aid that the top private schools are now offering, I have to question who is really offering the faster ROI these days.

For example, I strongly suspect that most people would find Harvard to actually be cheaper than their flagship state school. Harvard's new financial aid policy caps total costs (tuition, room, board) to at most 10% of family income for anybody whose family makes up to $180k (and has the typical assets for such a family income). Hence, such a person would pay $18k a year for everything, all in (i.e. room, board, etc) That same person, if he's a California resident, would pay $21-25k a year, all in (unless he were to live with relatives). That's because somebody whose family makes $180k is not going to get any financial aid from Berkeley. The bottom line is that for most California state residents, Berkeley actually costs more than Harvard does.

Harvard announces sweeping middle-income initiative — The Harvard University Gazette
Undergraduate Budgets 07-08

The only people who would have to pay more to attend Harvard rather than Berkeley are the rich, and I doubt that they care about the extra cost anyway.

The bottom line is that, if you want an absolutely fabulous financial deal, and you're not rich, don't go to your state school. Go to Harvard. I never thought I would say that, but it's now true. What I find to be ironic and sad is that public schools purported are supposed to offer a superior financial deal to their state residents. But they're not, at least, not anymore. The best deals are to be had at, ironically, the top private schools. Strange but true.

Now, of course, I say "glibly" that everybody should just go to a top private school. Obviously not everybody can do that, as only a small percentage will get in. But that statement is actually not glib at all, for it actually illustrates the basic point: the public schools are now (sadly) serving as the backup plans for those students who simply weren't good enough to get into one of the top private schools, where they would actually be able to pay less (unless they're rich).

Well, grads from the smaller schools also go to diff sectors. Not every Harvard graduate wants to do private equity or IB either.

Now, I think what you meant to say is that the percentage of students at the larger public schools who want to get into PE is lower than that at the top private schools. That is probably true, but I doubt that it is by enough to compensate for the large differences in absolute numbers.

sakky

Yeah but strength in numbers also translates into weakness in numbers. It's a double-edged sword. Sure, having more grads in the industry provides more recruiting influence, hence creating more potential spots for you. That's the pro But having more students interested in the industry also means more people from your school competing with you for those spots. That's the con. Whether the pros outweigh the con is unclear. For example, it doesn't really matter if Michigan alums can provide 10 available spots for Michigan grads if 20 of them are trying to get those spots. Any way you cut it, only half of them are going to get an offer. It's far better to have your old alums provide only 1 available spot that only 1 person is trying to get. That way, everybody who wants a job will get one.

That's why I think it is important to scale for per-capita figures, because it is a better depiction of how many spots will be created, relative to how many people are trying to nab those spots.

Alexandre

Sakky, as I said above, unless a study is conducted to establish the level of competition for those jobs on any given campus, one should not assume that just because a school is large, a greater number of students will wish to enter the field of finance.

UCBChemEGrad

Not to digress too much from the topic of this thread, but Sakky does raise salient points, not unnoticed by Robert Birgeneau, Chancellor of UC Berkeley.
Focus on issues: Affordability and access in public higher education
http://www.universityofcalifornia.ed...jan08/e2pp.pdf

Alexandre

I have added Silverlake to the list. The overall landscape remains much the same, but the more the better.

#1 Harvard University
-Blackstone 33
-Carlyle 80
-Bain 65
-Silverlake 16
TOTAL: 194

#2 University of Pennsylvania
-Blackstone 26
-Carlyle 45
-Bain 14
-Silverlake 7
TOTAL: 92

#3 Stanford University
-Blackstone 9
-Carlyle 26
-Bain 9
-Silverlake 11
TOTAL: 55

#4 Columbia University
-Blackstone 16
-Carlyle 23
-Bain 4
-Silverlake 0
TOTAL: 43

#5 Dartmouth College
-Blackstone 8
-Carlyle 12
-Bain 15
-Silverlake 0
TOTAL: 35

#6 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
-Blackstone 6
-Carlyle 14
-Bain 7
-Silverlake 2
TOTAL: 29

#6 Princeton University
-Blackstone 4
-Carlyle 15
-Bain 7
-Silverlake 3
TOTAL: 29

#8 New York University
-Blackstone 10
-Carlyle 17
-Bain 0
-Silverlake 1
TOTAL: 28

#9 Cornell University
-Blackstone 6
-Carlyle 13
-Bain 5
-Silverlake 2
TOTAL: 26

#9 Duke University
-Blackstone 1
-Carlyle 14
-Bain 7
-Silverlake 4
TOTAL: 26

#9 University of Chicago
-Blackstone 12
-Carlyle 10
-Bain 3
-Silverlake 1
TOTAL: 26

#9 Yale University
-Blackstone 5
-Carlyle 11
-Bain 8
-Silverlake 2
TOTAL: 26

#13 Georgetown University
-Blackstone 3
-Carlyle 12
-Bain 7
-Silverlake 2
TOTAL: 24

#14 Northwestern University
-Blackstone 5
-Carlyle 14
-Bain 2
-Silverlake 1
TOTAL: 22

#14 University of Califiornia-Berkeley
-Blackstone 1
-Carlyle 13
-Bain 2
-Silverlake 6
TOTAL: 22

#16 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
-Blackstone 1
-Carlyle 12
-Bain 5
-Silverlake 3
TOTAL: 21

#17 University of Virginia
-Blackstone 3
-Carlyle 12
-Bain 3
-Silverlake 0
TOTAL: 18

#18 University of Texas-Austin
-Blackstone 2
-Carlyle 14
-Bain 0
-Silverlake 1
TOTAL: 17

#19 Brown University
-Blackstone 1
-Carlyle 5
-Bain 4
-Silverlake 3
TOTAL: 13

cherokeejew

It's really not a very interesting question whether a larger % of people from Yale UG get in than from Michigan UG. Obviously the students at Yale are stronger on average, so they will do better, but that doesn't indicate the effect of the Yale degree.

What we really need to know is what chances the same person would have at either of the schools.

Looking at NMSs in the other thread, despite fewer total students, there are more top students at the top privates than the top state schools. From these numbers alone it would seem possible that a larger percentage of those top students are actually successful in PE at the state schools than at the top privates. Obviously there is the problem for calculation that some of the spots at these firms are getting taken by non "top students", but it's still imperative to adjust by the quality of the competition.

Of course, the numbers here don't allow comparison of UGs, since it is mixed in with graduate schools of varying quality. Comparing UGs for people with advanced degrees is pretty worthless, though, anyway, since the effect of the business school is surely dominant.

Alexandre

I have added Warburg Pincus and Providence Equity Partners to the list. Again, there isn't much of a change at the top, but we nw have stats on 6 of the top 10 PE firms with a combined 1,000 or so employees.

#1 Harvard University
-Blackstone 33
-Carlyle 80
-Bain 65
-Silverlake 16
-Warburg Pincus 22
-Providence Equity Partners 11
TOTAL: 227

#2 University of Pennsylvania
-Blackstone 26
-Carlyle 45
-Bain 14
-Silverlake 7
-Warburg Pincus 13
-Providence Equity Partners 7
TOTAL: 112

#3 Stanford University
-Blackstone 9
-Carlyle 26
-Bain 9
-Silverlake 11
-Warburg Pincus 3
-Providence Equity Partners 6
TOTAL: 64

#4 Columbia University
-Blackstone 16
-Carlyle 23
-Bain 4
-Silverlake 0
-Warburg Pincus 4
-Providence Equity Partners 1
TOTAL: 48

#5 Dartmouth College
-Blackstone 8
-Carlyle 12
-Bain 15
-Silverlake 0
-Warburg Pincus 3
-Providence Equity Partners 0
TOTAL: 38

#6 Princeton University
-Blackstone 4
-Carlyle 15
-Bain 7
-Silverlake 3
-Warburg Pincus 2
-Providence Equity Partners 5
TOTAL: 36

#7 New York University
-Blackstone 10
-Carlyle 17
-Bain 0
-Silverlake 1
-Warburg Pincus 3
-Providence Equity Partners 1
TOTAL: 32

#8 Duke University
-Blackstone 1
-Carlyle 14
-Bain 7
-Silverlake 4
-Warbug Pincus 2
-Providence Equity Partners 3
TOTAL: 31

#8 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
-Blackstone 6
-Carlyle 14
-Bain 7
-Silverlake 2
-Warburg Pincus 2
-Providence Equity Partners 0
TOTAL: 31

#10 Yale University
-Blackstone 5
-Carlyle 11
-Bain 8
-Silverlake 2
-Warburg Pincus 4
-Providence Equity Partners 0
TOTAL: 30

#11 Cornell University
-Blackstone 6
-Carlyle 13
-Bain 5
-Silverlake 2
-Warburg Pincus 2
-Providence Equity Partners 1
TOTAL: 29

#11 University of Chicago
-Blackstone 12
-Carlyle 10
-Bain 3
-Silverlake 1
-Warburg Pincus 2
-Providence Equity Partners 1
TOTAL: 29

#13 Georgetown University
-Blackstone 3
-Carlyle 12
-Bain 7
-Silverlake 2
-Warburg Pincus 1
-Providence Equity Partners 3
TOTAL: 28

#14 University of Califiornia-Berkeley
-Blackstone 1
-Carlyle 13
-Bain 2
-Silverlake 6
-Warburg Pincus 2
-Providence Equity Partners 2
TOTAL: 26

#14 Northwestern University
-Blackstone 5
-Carlyle 14
-Bain 2
-Silverlake 1
-Warburg Pincus 3
-Providence Equity Partners 1
TOTAL: 26

#16 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
-Blackstone 1
-Carlyle 12
-Bain 5
-Silverlake 3
-Warburg Pincus 3
-Providence Equity Partners 1
TOTAL: 25

#17 University of Virginia
-Blackstone 3
-Carlyle 12
-Bain 3
-Silverlake 0
-Warburg Pincus 2
-Providence Equity Partners 1
TOTAL: 21

#18 University of Texas-Austin
-Blackstone 2
-Carlyle 14
-Bain 0
-Silverlake 1
-Warburg Pincus 1
-Providence Equity Partners 1
TOTAL: 19

#19 Brown University
-Blackstone 1
-Carlyle 5
-Bain 4
-Silverlake 3
-Warburg Pincus 0
-Providence Equity Partners 4
TOTAL: 17

Sam Lee

alexandre,

i just went to PEP's website and just saw that Ronald A. Collins went to Northwestern but you have zero for Northwestern. I swear I just randomly browsed only 3 profiles just because I was curious what typically goes into a profile.

hawkette

alexandre,
I know that this is an awful lot of work to do all of this searching, but I think it would be a heckuva lot more valuable if you broke out the undergrads from the grads. It really is apples and oranges you're putting together here unless there is some point that you are making that I am missing. By combining both grad and undergrad, a jumbled picture emerges and certain schools, like Brown which has no graduate business school, probably gets viewed as a lesser player than it actually is.

Sam Lee

Did Alexandre actually click every single profile? Wow...that's A LOT of work!!!

barrons

So now private equity is the only career that matters because grads of certain schools have more of a relatively few jobs? Since they got blasted out of the CEO jobs by state school grads they need something to show their superiority. Anyway it's highly likely half of these PE firms will be going broke in the recession and the rest won't be doing as much and will not be hiring so good luck to all the fired Ibankers and new grads trying to get jobs with these firms.

I think NFL and NBA careers are far cooler than PE. There are far more Michigan and other state school grads playing in those leagues earning nice $$$. Plus they get way more hot chicks.

UCBChemEGrad

^ LOL! I said it too.
Sam, did you notice again...Berkeley>NU?

Alexandre

Hawkette, I did not keep track of undergrad vs graduate with the exception of Michigan. In the case of Michigan, it was 17 undergrads (7 BBA, 7 BA/BS and 3 BSE) and 14 grad (11 MBA, 2 JD and 1 PhD in Physics).

Alexandre

Sam Lee, I actually clicked on all the profiles! LOL! I appologize for missing one NU grad. I am sure I missed a few from each university. I clicked on 1,000 profiles so I am bound to have missed a few. I made the correction above.

UCBChemGrad, with the correction, Cal = NU. Hehe!!!

PimpDaddy1

While I do think this is a very interesting list (and must've taken an immense amount of research), I do think its a incredibly unfair to the schools w/o a business school, namely Princeton and Brown. HBS has about 500 kids a year, thats roughly half of Princeton's yearly undergraduate population and I do believe HBS explains Harvard's dominance of this list.

I would venture to guess that Wharton business does the same for Penn. I'd like to see similar list based only on undergrad since such a listing does seem to give several schools (including my alma mater) the shaft. Nevertheless, I do think its quite the impressive showing by Princeton and Brown.