Rangzen

Thanks to you two
So will my SAT be compared to the other Internationals SATs only or will they check the country too? Is it an advantage or disadvantage to be from Germany, on the one hand I believe not that many Germans want to study abroad, on the other hand Germany does have good Universities...

Oh and tetrisfan, does that mean my chances at USC are good? =)

hoonose

For an international, you have great ECs. You have good marks too, from what I've seen. As for SAT scores, they'd expect your reading and writing scores to be slightly lower. You could see if you can do TOEFL, but besides that, try to get your reading and writing above 650 for a real edge.

Rangzen

I am doing TOEFL next month, that one shouldnt be a prob

vossron

I don't think we can generalize about how much various schools might want Germans, but there are certainly fewer than applicants from China and India!

Rangzen

Another post after quite some time

I've heared 2k9 is a bad year for applicants... :-(

What SAT scores should I be aiming for? Considering Im an international from Germany. (For UCLA / USC)

Rister_Chutophs

I don't know about UCLA (public), but for USC anything above >2100 should be OK. For Harvey Mudd, you need VERY high math scores, though.
And being from Germany is definitely an advantage since there aren't a lot of applicants from Western Europe.

Don't worry too much about the SATs (no point in aksing "what should I be aiming for" - get as high scores as you can!) because usually Abiturienten do very well in those.

Rangzen

What makes you think that Abiturienten do well in the SAT?
The main problem I am having is that a huge amount of vocabulary I havent even seen before is asked. And even though I am learning vocabulary lists, I doubt that I can catch up

Rister_Chutophs

Experience. I did the Swiss Matura which is similar to the Abitur and I think we are very well prepared. I also know a bunch of German students who all said that the SATs were pretty easy for them.

Here on CC, you'll read a lot of time that it's not worth memorizing vocab.
Maybe this is true for native speakers but I've done intense vocab cramming for about 1 month and it really helped me a lot.
It requires determination though, to study for a test that none of your friend has ever heard of - on top of the normal school work and Abi-Vorbereitung.
In addition to that, reading English articles (International Herald Tribune, National Science, whatever interests you) helps too. And whenever you come across a word that you don't know: Write it down!

Good luck and PM me if you need any help. I know the process can be very trying and I was always glad when I got help from people who were more experienced. I'd be happy to "give back a little bit".

cellardweller

I don't believe you should worry too much about your SAT Verbal score for admission as an international, especially if you are intenting to pursue education in science or engineering. Admissions officers don't expect you to have the same mastery of english as native speakers. That's why they have the TOEFL. I am familiar with a number of french students applying to top engineering schools. Their transcript and French Baccalaureat or IB results and letters of recommendation were the only things that really mattered. It was understood that pursuing many ECs was just not common in high school in Europe. Some were even admitted as sophomores, which saved them a year in tuition.

For some schools like UCLA, being non-resident is a bigger issue. They just don't take many out-of-state students, let alone internationals. I don't know what the admission rate for internationals is at Caltech but is probably very low with many highly qualified students from China and India applying. I know at MIT it is only around 4% but that is partly because MIT offers full financial aid to internationals. Caltech does not, so it may not be as hard. You should really check each school's policy in regards to interrnationals. Some are very friendly, especially if you don't expect any financial aid.

Rangzen

Could you please give me some details on what to look out for?
As Im really unfamiliar with college stuff I cannot guess my chances, specially because the data sheets Ive seen do not show the percentage admitted with financial aid and without...
I highly appretiate your help! =)

And Ive already taken the Toefl, received 112/120 points.

Rister_Chutophs

Rule of thumb: if you're not applying for financial aid as an international student you will most likely be put in the same pool as domestic applicants at top colleges (there are execptions though, like MIT).
For colleges ranked in Tier 2 (or lower), you have a real advantage if you're an international not seeking for aid.

However, there isn't really a point in guessing chances at this stage (well, actually there is seldom a point in guessing chances on CC...) since you haven't taken your SATs yet.
Just look for colleges that you like in terms of size, location, reputation, majors, atmosphere etc.

As I said, there's no point in making chances without your SATs but you should be a competitive applicant at pretty much every American university.

cellardweller

I don't know of any college where they just lump internationals with US residents, whether or not they give financial aid. It may not necessarily be more difficult to be admitted, but they nearly always have a separate process for internationals, just because evaluating the credentials of internationals is so different. At most larger universities, there is generally an adcom handling international applications who is familiar with various countries eduactional systems. Most colleges don't allow internationals to apply ED for instance, which is often a big advantage in admission.

To a large part, you will compete against other international applicants not against domestic applicants. Even there, you may find the school is seeking some diversity in its international enrollment and will not admit all of its internationals from just a few countries. You will actually find that Europeans are generally underrepresented in the international applicant pool at the undergraduate level, which could be an advantage for you. I don't think many Germans apply to Caltech straight out of high school for instance.

Again, I don't believe your SAT scores will matter that much, especially the verbal part. In many countries, the average math and science level coming out of high school is significantly higher than the US. They are not really worried you won't be able to handle the work.

Assuming you are qualified (relative to your peers in Germany), your chance of admission may have more to do with overall policies regarding internationals. Remember, that in the US, "demonstrated interest" is often considered a factor in admission. Also, get some solid recommendations from your professors. Provide them with a listing of your accomplishments if necessary. Don't have them just list your grades and say you are a good student. The college will see that from the transcript. Have them talk about what you will bring to the college. If the college you are applying to has not admitted many Germans in the past, make sure they get a letter from your school principal explaining the grading system and giving an estimate of your rank in the class together with the transcript. In some countries, getting an A or equivalent is much harder than in the US. What looks like average grades may actually be in the top 5% of the class. Visiting some of the schools over the summer may be of great help. You could meet some of the faculty and people at the admissions office. You will also get a better feel for the schools you intend to apply to. With the current value of the dollar, it is cheaper for you to spend as few weeks in California than on the beach in Spain.

Rangzen

Thanks for that very detailed post!
I've already talked to some of my teachers about recommendation letters, they all "believe" in my skills and are willing to write, but do not know what it should look like. My sciece teacher told me that I am the best student he has had so far and I should just bring an example of a perfect recommendation letter that he would then adjust to fit me.
But I guess individual details are more important?

tenisghs

@ Rangzen

I know this thread is old but I felt the need to respond and give you important advice: You face a VERY HARD chance of admittance, no matter how well your grades are. The UCs are public universities and highly favor California residents (UCLA admits like 80-90% in-state students). The only way you will be able to get into UCLA, your dream school, is pure luck or you know someone to influence your admissions. I would also apply to USC and Stanford.

cellardweller

I would not hesitate to draft a model letter with relevant personal details in it, to submit to your professor for review. Try to have somebody who knows you well write the letter rather than somebody who just gave you a top grade. It will be much more meaningful.

I would also strongly encourage you to have the principal of your high school or somebody high level in your school administration write a letter as well. In the US the guidance counselor writes such a letter and it is often very important to admissions officers. Many high schools ask the student to provide a 'brag' sheet about his accomplishments. In a large high school, the principal may not know you personally and you want the letter feel more personal. In the letter, the principal needs to provide details about the overall curriculum at your high school, the Abitur pass rate, how difficult your specific curriculum was relative to that of your peers, what your rank at the school was (in the absence of ranking provide a percentile such as top 5%, top 10% etc..). Without such a letter the US college has no way of knowing if your high school is selective or if you took any hard classes. The preference at elite colleges is that the student should take the most challenging curriculum available to him.

Also spend significant time on your essays. You are obviously a good writer in English so it should not be that hard. US colleges want to know about your "character" and if you will fit in to their culture. Make that apparent in your essays. Add an extra essay specifically on why you intend to study in the US and why the college you are applying to is your first choice. (Don't just reuse the same essays but try to customize them). They will generally be impressed if you travelled specifically to visit the school. Make sure to read the colleges web sites so that you can refer to specific programs of interest in your essay.

Again, the admissions process will sound very different to what you may be used to, but most private colleges in the US use a holistic approach to admission. As long as you qualify academically (which you most likely do), the decision may rest on other factors. They often want to know what you will bring to the university not just what you will take away.