keefer

hehe. i knew sakky would say something about that as I was typing it out. Even at MIT/Harvard, the percentage of people heading to Mckinsey, Bain and BCG straight out of undergrad is only 10-15%. Firms like Deloitte, Mercer, Accenture hire from everywhere. Financial Services encompasses a large number of job categories, the number of people who are at the important jobs are only a small number. Goldman Sachs is one of the largest networks on facebook, but how many of them are truly Front Office?

Look I know it makes a difference, but the difference is negligible in the grand scheme of things, and too often people have unrealistic expectations just because they went to Harvard, it's an entry level job.

midmo

This is a really important point, and one that is rarely acknowledged on cc. I would modify it a bit, though, to say there are many networked professors at middle of the road universities, including some who do not have extremely illustrious educational pedigrees, who have national reputations in their fields, especially in research-heavy fields. If you find yourself at a mid-ranked public or private for whatever reason, do your homework and find out who has current externally funded research projects going on, check their publication records and see who they co-author papers with, go talk with anyone who seems likely to have something to offer you. It might be harder to find a well-connected professor at a middling school, but it is a lot easier to get her/his attention. If you are a stand-out, you will stand out.

sakky

I don't disagree with your basic point which is that Harvard does not guarantee anything and that one should not have unrealistic expectations.

Nevertheless, I would say that the difference is more than just 'negligible'. Harvard, MIT, and schools of that caliber give you access to opportunities that other schools cannot. For example, I know guys at Harvard who were able to get some interviews at top private equity firms and hedge funds that practically no other students at other schools could ever get. Now, granted, you still have to do well in the interview to get the job, and if you get the job, you have to do well at that job. But at least they got the interview. Most people can't even get the interview and so they don't even get a chance at the job.

UCLAri

If going to Harvard means I end up in i-banking, count me out. I consider myself fortunate not to be with a bunch of gunners day in and day out. I'll take my personal life, family, friends, and sleep thank you very much.

applejack

I was actually just recently struck by this issue in my life.

I am enough years out of college that networks and all that boohonky have no bearing on my life and my abilities are measured much more by what I've done since college than what I did at Cornell. Nevertheless, I have had two job opportunities in which the hiring bosses went to Harvard, Stanford, and Yale.

Would I have gotten an interview from these particular persons if I didn't go to a school at least within the same realm of quality and reputation as the schools they went to? I would like to think so, but I don't know. Both were very down to earth, caring people working to build a sustainable world. Yet both clearly had an affinity for hiring from top tier schools. Everybody in our departments - even interns - at least went to Duke or Georgetown.

I've met too many brilliant people from very mediocre schools to believe the hype. Yet perhaps the ones who hold the salaries have the biases that reinforce the notion that a top school is important.

ken285

You hit on a key point there. Going to a prestigious school doesn't mean you're more qualified than somebody who went to a mediocre school. However, there are plenty of qualified people out there, and given two similar candidates you'd rather take the Yale graduate over the some-mediocre-school graduate.

Then you have to factor in the alumni connection. Once that Yale graduate gets into a position to be able to hire people, chances are that the new jobs will also go to Yale graduates, so this process kind of feeds on itself. The last company I worked for, as well as my current company, hired me because I went to the same undergrad as both VP's. I'd say I'm qualified, but was I significantly more qualified than all the other people sitting in the room? Probably not. In the future, when I'm in a position to hire people, you can count on the fact that I'll look for alums of my alma mater.

bball2008

Silly me. A good job is definitely important. However the majority of people we know that OWN their own companies are not graduates of Ivies. Those people like to hire smart people, possibly from top tier schools, but that doesn't mean those people have a clue what to do when they get hired. Everyone must get trained. That's where the wheat gets separated from the chaff. Look, the smartest and wealthiest guy I know went to a small midwestern LAC, and his father had a 9th grade education and he is the second wealthiest person I know. We are talking billions not just millions wealthy. It is very true that the more you put into it the more you will get out of it.

sakky

If you want to talk about entrepreneurship, there is a boatload of academic literature that specifically details the nexus between certain 'gateway' schools (i.e. Stanford, Harvard, MIT) and entrepreneurship. Facebook, for example, was founded by 3 roommates at Harvard. Google was founded by 2 Stanford students who were assigned to work on the same research project. Harmonix (developer of Guitar Hero) was founded by 2 guys who met at MIT.

Granted, Stanford and MIT obviously aren't Ivies, but the general point stands. It has been proven time and time again that certain schools strongly foster entrepreneurship and new business creation.

Well, I don't know, does everybody need to get trained? Most of the early employees of Facebook were Harvard buddies of the founders. Exactly what training did those early employees? In fact, in the early days of Facebook, it was hard to find anybody at the company who was even old enough to buy alcohol. Similarly, most of the early employees at Google were Stanford pals of Sergey and Larry. Again, who trained them?

Look, the fact of the matter is that when a company is first started, especially a high-tech startup, you don't really go out to hire the truly 'smartest people' per se. Frankly, you don't even have the time or resources to think about that. What you really end up doing is hiring your friends because that's who you know. After all, if nothing else, at least you know you can get along with your friends. Ever work with somebody that you know is smart, but that people in the office personally hate? I have (at a large company). Trust me, it sucks. It drains productivity at a large company. In a startup, it will probably kill the company, because startups don't have margin for error. Hence, if nothing else, at least you know you don't hate your friends.

And, the fact is, college is an excellent opportunity to meet new friends who will be going places. I still keep in touch with my old roommate, including one who is a millionaire from his high-tech startup that he founded. That's the advantage of social networks. Surely we've all heard the phrase 'It's not what you know, it's who you know'.

Columbia_Student

But you keep mixing up UG at Harvard/Stanford with graduate schools. Those people that started Google went to no namebrand UG.
And Bill Gates and the Facebook guy, Mark Z, are both Harvard drop outs. So the bottom line is entrepreneur is the way to go to make loads of money.

#785 Mark Zuckerberg - Forbes.com

FLVADAD

Oh, if only it were so easy as just getting into the right school.

Yes, it can certainly be about "who you know," but those networks are established in all sorts of venues, and some of the stongest have nothing to do with where you, or your connections, went to school. I consider myself very well connected in my field from coast to coast, but all of those connections were established through my professional work and associations. Not a single one is related to my college affiliation.

Bottom line is that those who can deliver the goods, have good social networking skills, and professional acumen, will do very well no matter what college they attend.

As a hiring officer I seek out the best performers, not those with the best college pedigree. If that person has both, great. However, proven ability trumps all. There are exceptions. Various forms of nepotism certainly exist, but it's mostly about talent.

superdigg

What are the implications of the "who you know" emphasis on kids who go to small, but prestigious liberal arts schools? I'm headed to a Top 15 (ALMOST Top 10) school this fall, and since it has a small student body, I don't anticipate ever finding myself being interviewed for a job by a fellow alumnus. Would an LAC student's luck with connections have to depend on his grad school? I understand that "who you know" isn't everything, I just thought I'd toss another variable into the discussion.

DunninLA

superdigg,

There is no implication, because it doesn't matter where you go! If you have the same intelligence (there are *many* kinds of intelligence), drive, discipline, as the students admitted to elite Universities, then you will do equally well in life.

P.S. I find the reduction of success to mean monetary success pitful.

Milkmagn

Of course not! You will become homeless if you don't go to an ivy-calibre school

world changer

My dad does hiring for a major Fortune 500 company.

He has told me countless times that where you go to school really doesn't matter, as long as you have a degree and the right personal characteristics. During interviews, your future employer may bring up the topic of college, but it's most likely just to make conversation and learn more about you as a person. Seriously, where a candidate went to school is not something they give much consideration to. In the real world, degree is a degree. Personal characteristics (such as drive, motivation, and integrity) are far more important.

Milkmagn

^yea... I know someone who got an engineering ph.D from Duke University but is now working as the manager of his wife's dental office (who went to Tufts Dental School)