tnguyen08

On another topic, clearly based from my own curiosity, I wonder what the writer meant when he said "my family's legit". Oh well, I'm giving the post back to the philosopical debaters

SSD

Sometimes going to an elite school can be a handicap on the job. Especially if you have an arrogant attitude. I have heard many stories of Harvard Med school graduates that did not get along with anyone. No-one liked them. Even with a good attitude, many times your colleagues and the boss will have a already made assumptions about you and make it more difficult than if you went to a state school.

aworldapart

Lame thread.

Of course you are where you went. Whether people admit it or not, students are shaped by their environments more than they think, especially in the 18-22 age range. You put a person at Harvard and the person will be immersed in a diverse community of thought with high achieving students. You put a person at a community college and the person will be surrounded by people of less intellectual caliber. Consequently, the person who leaves Harvard will be different (not necessarily better, however) from the person who leaves community college. FACT. Surely the person has innate qualities that are unlikely to be diminished by the environment, but these qualities are enhanced/challenged/reevaluated at Harvard more stringently than at a community college.

kh892

Maybe there is a difference in getting a degree from Harvard and a degree from a tier 3 university.
However, many, many intelligent people do not get to attend HYPSM or any other top 10 university.
It seems arrogant to say that these people are precluded from any success in life.

galoisien

The difference, I suppose, is "success in life," versus "achieving the most of your potential."

UCLAri

Right, but what is "success in life?" On this site, it's going to a top 25 school, then either becoming an i-banker, doctor, lawyer, or college professor at a top 25 school.

CEO of a Fortune 500 might be acceptable, depending on the salary.

Basically, success on this site is being part of the Gibson-middle class of $200K per annum and above. Schoolteachers, aid workers, state legislators, public defenders (even though they are attorneys), and nurses need not apply.

galoisien

I-researcher!

FLVADAD

The people at Harvard and similarly selective schools are a self-selecting group who are already on certain paths towards success. The main factor is not that they attended Harvard and rubbed off on one another, but that they were high achievers to begin with. The most selective schools probably actually do the least when it comes to impacting the path of success for their students. After all, they only accept those who are already on a very sharp upward trajectory. Take most HYP admits and place them at tier 3 schools and they'd still be successful. It's the people, not the institution that makes the greatest difference.

kh892

As FLAVDAD said...the school does not determine a person's "success" (if we're talking about the typical CC attitude that being successful is making 200k+ a year). Success is determined by the person and the person only, and it only happens so that highly motivated, intelligent people happen to go to schools like Harvard and Yale.

If we were to take two clones with equal motivation, intelligence, and perseverance, put one in Harvard, and another in State U, I'd wager that 10 or 15 years later, they would be at the exact same place success-wise.

galoisien

An interesting idea, but I have to ask if it is really so?

I'm really contemplating the real difference myself, (for financial reasons), and I am just wondering about lost research opportunities, the chance to hook up with better-matched peers, etc. if I choose to go to a cheaper school.

kh892

Well think about it this way.
If a person with the intelligence and the motivation of a Harvard student went to state U, is it not reasonable to assume that he will use his intelligence and drive to overcome the relative obstacles that State U presents for him?
Truly motivated and intelligent people reach their full potential in the face of adversity : )

galoisien

He might overcome the obstacles with some compensation, but reaching equal footing seems a different matter though.

cellardweller

That reminds me of the myth that only authors who had experienced tragedy firsthand could write great litterature.

Bill Gates was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and that did not prevent him from succeeding. With all his drive and motivation he still took advantage of any breaks he got along the way even from attending Harvard before dropping out.

The spillover effects from attending an elite university are undeniable. For two equally bright students, the one with a degree from an elite school will have an advantage over the other. Not insurmountable, but still an advantage. It is like handicapping in golf. I am a pretty strong player. Another strong player player can still beat me even if he give me a few shots per round. Give me a shot per hole and you'd have to be Tiger Woods to beat me.

Pursuing that golf analogy, the issue is how much of a handicap advantage an elite school gives you. Take the example of MIT which I know well. If you are simply looking to get any job in engineering, you might do as well from any number of solid tech schools and make nearly the same starting salary. If you are actually looking to be a petroleum engineer you might actually be better off elsewhere. But if you want to work for Google, Microsoft or as Sakky mentioned branch off into I-banking or consulting, you get a huge advantage. Same thing with graduate school or professional school admission. If you don't care about where you go for your PhD or your MBA, many schools can get you there. If you want to get into ANY med school, some universities with grade inflation may possibly offer you an easier path. But if you want to get in to HMS, Wharton or a top biology PhD program with a reasonable chance or landing a tenure track position, the handicap advantage is very large.

In the end, the extra advantage will not guarantee you will outperform others every time. Statistically though, it does mean that over many events, you will do better than an equally talented person without the advantage. Over a lifetime, it could be very substantial, especially when your starting point has a lot to do with where you end up.

keefer

At my job, there's several people from Harvard, nobody really goes "wow" when they hear it, and there are also people from schools like UMBC, Howard, Penn State, everyone pretty much assumes that when you get hired they assume you have the ability to do the job.

My resume doesn't start with my education info, it ends near the bottom with where i attended college. I agree that it's a big deal to some employers in certain industries, but I'm willing to bet if the biggest accomplishment in your life is graduating from Harvard, when you are 30 years old, no one will be impressed.

Columbia_Student

From what I read, he did not want to attend Harvard but his parent told him to do it for at least one year and that is exactly what he did.