gellino

Hawkette, so which were schools A,B,C,D?

Acceptance rate and SAT-average wise, UMichigan, BC, Lehigh and NYU are all pretty closely stacked. Actually, BC is probably a little above by these measures.

Are you implying that schools like UChicago, Northwestern, WUSTL, Stanford, Pomona, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Carleton, Oberlin, Emory, Duke, Rice all have less than 14% of their student bodies coming from the northeastern states? That seems improbable to me.

hawkette

gellino,

imaparasite mentioned several colleges and I chose four for my comparison in post #36. The colleges were:

College A: U Michigan

College B: Northwestern

College C: Lehigh

College D: Boston College

If you look at the numbers dispassionately, it is clear that Lehigh and Boston College are much more representative of the private peer universe than Northwestern.

As for the student distribution numbers, I don't have the data on hand for most of the colleges that you mention and not all schools disclose the same way. Here are a few comparisons, eg,

Notre Dame

37% Midwest
24% Northeast
12% South
12% Southwest
11% West

Duke

14% Northeast
19% Mid-Atlantic
24% South
10% Midwest
11% West

Vanderbilt

17% Northeast
46% South
14% Midwest
8% Southwest
6% West

Northwestern

6% Northeast
42% Midwest
16% Mid-Atlantic
10% South
5% Southwest
14% West


By comparison, U Michigan would be:

74% Midwest
14% Northeast

imaparasite

But it is 65% in state, so nearly the same amount of students who come from non-MI Midwest states come from Northeast states.

danas

Michigan is a quality institution with a substantial endowment.
However, I've been wondering about Michigan's status vis a vis other universities over the next 20 years or so.
Specifically, Michigan (the state) is in economic decline with a strapped budget. I'm not sure if the state's population will actually decrease, but both wealth and population growth are moving elsewhere. The demographics of the Northeast and Midwest mean a declining number of high school graduates, particularly middle and upper middle class white graduates, who provide much of the high functioning student base of the institution.
Of course a high school student is and should be interested in the education here and now. However, is it possible that the University of Michigan could go through a long, slow decline relative to its peers?

hawkette

According to the most recently released CDS for U Michigan, 32% of the undergraduates are from OOS, so 68% are from Michigan. It does not provide the breakdown beyond this. Regardless, these are very good numbers for a public university, but in nearly all cases, they will lag the geographic diversity found at the top privates. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone given their institutional mandate as a public university.

keefer

"If you look at the numbers dispassionately, it is clear that Lehigh and Boston College are much more representative of the private peer universe than Northwestern. "

I laughed out loud at this at the office. Boston college is at least within the ballpark, but Lehigh?

hawkette

keefer,
Maybe we interpret the data differently, but I think that College A is a lot closer to College C than it is to College B.

Key:
College A = U Michigan
College B = Northwestern
College C = Lehigh

STUDENT SELECTIVITY
-% ACCEPTANCE RATE
College A 47% College B 30% College C 39%
-SAT/ACT RANGE (Middle 50%)
College A 1210-1420/ 27-31 College B 1320-1500/ 30-34 College C 1220-1400/ na
-% OF STUDENTS RANKING IN TOP 10% IN HS CLASS
College A 90% College B 83% College C 90%


% OF STUDENTS SCORING 700+ ON SAT CRITICAL READING
College A 23% College B 53% College C 13%
% OF STUDENTS SCORING 700+ ON SAT MATH
College A 43% College B 63% College C 39%
% OF STUDENTS SCORING 30+ ON ACT
College A 43% College B 69% College C na


FACULTY RESOURCES
-% OF CLASSES WITH <20 STUDENTS
College A 45% College B 74% College C 66%
-% OF CLASSES WITH 50+ STUDENTS
College A 17% College B 8% College C 4%
-FACULTY/STUDENT RATIO
College A 15/1 College B 7/1 College C 9/1
USNWR FACULTY RESOURCES RANK
College A 69th College B 7th College C 19th


GRADUATION RATES
-% OF STUDENTS EXPECTED TO GRADUATE IN 6 YEARS:
College A 83% College B 93% College C 82%
-% OF STUDENTS WHO DO GRADUATE IN 6 YEARS:
College A 87% College B 93% College C 86%
-% OF STUDENTS WHO GRADUATE IN 4 YEARS:
College A 70% College B 85% College C 75%
FRESHMAN RETENTION RATE
College A 96% College B 97% College C 94%
USNWR GRADUATION & RETENTION RANK:
College A 26th College B 13th College C 31st

ALUMNI GIVING %
College A 17% College B 29% College C 36%
USNWR ALUMNI GIVING RANK
College A 83rd College B 27th College C 13th

% OF WHITE/NON-HISPANIC STUDENTS
College A 66% College B 59% College C 72%

% FROM PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOLS
College A 80% College B 73% College C na

dilksy

Yes, we know you love posting "objective data" and that's all that matters to you. Just because the data is "objective" doesn't mean it's not "highly biased" (against larger/public schools) or "particularly relevant" to quality of undergraduate education.

keefer

I'll bet you anything that when Michigan does private peers benchmarking, it doesn't include Lehigh, and frankly I don't think Boston College is in the discussion either.

beefs

<3 Michigan.

Alexandre

Danas, Michigan's state population and economy have been steadily declining since the early 70s. And yet, Michigan has far out-paced all other universities in growth of endowment over the last 20 years.

"Are you implying that schools like UChicago, Northwestern, WUSTL, Stanford, Pomona, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Carleton, Oberlin, Emory, Duke, Rice all have less than 14% of their student bodies coming from the northeastern states? That seems improbable to me."

No Gellino, I am implying that the percentage of undergrads from the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic at most small private elites outside of the Noprtheast and Mid Atlantic does not exceed 25%. And Michigan, a huge state university with obligations to maintain a large in-state population still managed to hang with the private elites. That is pretty impresive. Even schools like Northwestern, Chicago, Stanford and Notre Dame only have 20%-25% coming from the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic. Michigan's 14% is definitely impressive considering its size.

hawkette

Not sure what the point is in these comparisons. How much would you expect a place like ND to have from the northeast and mid-Atlantic? They're drawing from a national applicant pool and enrolling students from all over the country.

I think it's great that U Michigan has 33% OOS students (and wish that more state universities had this approach), but this is a far cry from ALL of the private elites. Nothing wrong with that as they have different requirements in their operating missions, but I don't see how you can conclude that U Michigan is not much more regional in its enrollment. For example, ND has only 37% from its home region in the Midwest. U Michigan has 68% from Michigan and 74% from the Midwest.

anzacday

UM is home to a startlingly large number of morons (47% acceptance rate). One can quite easily go, or so I've heard, four years without ever speaking to a professor.

I suppose its OK... if you don't mind (1) being educated by the government, (2) or that the number one program is *ahem* FOOTBALL.

patlees88

I get the feeling that UMich is vastly underrated both in CC and real life. The high school I attended sent a bulk of graduating seniors to UMich (Chicago suburb), and generally, people thought that it was a pretty good school, but no one believed that it is a top 20 caliber university. I believe that given Umich's vast academic resources as well as outstanding academic programs, it offers a top-notch education to anyone.

MightyNick

You're an idiot. No offense intended.

Getting into UM as an OOS is extremely competitive - 47% is the overall acceptance rate. For OOS, I bet the acceptance rate is more like 25%.

You can chose to go the entire four years without talking to your professors. It's up to the student. But you're making generalizations that show how uneducated you are.