keefer

hawkette, i can concur with Alexandre on this. I took about 5 graduate level courses, and I think(speculation) most students (85+%) do take graduate level classes at some point in their undergraduate career. In fact, in my freshman year, I took a graduate level history course!

I don't know enough about LSA to comment, but in the engineering school, you have to take graduate level courses to graduate. The required technical electives are mostly 400 and 500 level courses. My senior design team consisted of 6 people, 1 pre-PhD candidate, 3 Master's students.

The advanced fluid class i took was a graduate level course numbered at the 400 level, about 50% undergrad and 50% graduate students. Same with the other classes i took at the graduate level. I don't know if this is only true at Michigan, but there really isn't a lot of difference between Master's students and Bachelor's students, if you are a senior your classes are pretty much Master's curriculum.

Alexandre

Hawkette, there is no percentage on the number of undergrads who take graduate level classes. It is quite common though. Several students I knew at Michigan took several graduate courses, even Engineers. Many of my friends at other universities (Cornell, MIT, Northwestern, Stanford) also took graduate level classes as undergrads. I will look into this further, but I can tell you right off the bat, the reason many students attend schools like Michigan is to take advanced level and graduate level classes with leaders in their chosen field of study.

CayugaRed2005

At Cornell, I would hazard a guess that around 60-70 percent of students graduated having taken at least 1-2 graduate-level courses, whether they be introductory PhD-track courses, or courses in one of the assorted professional schools on campus. It tends to be much higher in the sciences and social sciences than in the humanities.

Personally, it was one of the more important elements in my decision to turn down Notre Dame for Cornell. I was sold on the fact that I would have better exposure to faculty/research at Cornell than I would at Notre Dame. (Coincidentally, I was sold on this by a Cornell professor and Notre Dame alum who was just so happening to give a lecture at Notre Dame the say I visited.)

I certainly don't regret my decision.

dilksy

From the Rackham website:

1. 400 level courses are assumed to be primarily for undergraduates. If the course material is described as sufficiently advanced, graduate credit may be granted upon approval of the Graduate School. Requests for graduate credit for 400 level courses must provide information to verify that the course material is at the graduate level for all students, or that graduate students are required to do additional work beyond the level required of undergraduates in the course.

2. 500 level courses are assumed to be primarily for first-year graduate students; senior majors may also take them or others by special permission.

3. 600 level courses are assumed to be for masters and doctoral students (or second year students in professional schools), and only rarely for exceptional undergraduates.

4. 700 level courses are assumed to be for masters and doctoral students (or third-year students in professional schools).


And this is what I've managed to do so far
Sophomore year:
Math 575, 591, 592, 596, 597
Junior year:
Complex Systems 511
Math 565, 593, 594, 637, 669, 675, 775

I almost took a graduate level physics course, but after one lecture decided I couldn't handle the teacher/the way he taught the class, so I picked up a different class.

hawkette

If the numbers really are this high, eg, 85% or even 50% of the student body that are taking graduate courses, then I would think that the colleges would publicize this more broadly as a differentiating feature of what they can offer, especially vis-a-vis the offering of a LAC.

Does anyone know if colleges track the numbers of undergrad students taking graduate courses and how this might compare across the collegiate spectrum?

Alexandre

Hawkette, it is common knowledge that great research universities offer opportunities that cannot be duplicated at lesser research universities or LACs. Of course, students at those universities must contend with more demanding, and somtimes less caring (because of the demands on their time and responsibility toward their research), professors, but advanced academics come at a price.

CayugaRed2005

Life is all about trade-offs.

GoBlue81

Even in my days, many of my ChE classmates at the University of Wisconsin took 1-2 graduate courses, especially those planning to go for PhD. One of my friends took all graduate level ChE courses during his senior year. And we didn't even have AP credits in those days!

I had at least half a dozen undergrad in all of my computer engineering classes at Michigan. And these were the kids who gave me the most competition.

Furthermore, undergrad research is quite common nowadays. The University of Washington states that:

- 100% of Materials Science & Engineering majors are involved in undergraduate research.
- More than 160 undergraduates currently participate in research with the Department of Physics.
- Every year, 7,000 undergraduates participate in research (that's about 25% of the undergrad student body).