wemerson5

What would you say are the pros and cons of these three schools?

jarsilver

Vassar
pros: strongest/most prestigious academically, an OK college town with pretty easy access to city, nice campus. lots of freedom in course selection.
cons: very selective. can't really think of too much else that was wrong with it except that it didn't particularly stand out to me right away.

Bard
pros: very active student culture, esp. strong in the arts, intellectual student body. pretty campus. really focused on small seminar classes and student involvement.
cons: extremely isolated. small. somewhat limited resources.

Sarah Lawrence
pros: very close to the city. very involved professors. academics that are very well suited towards certain students' needs. less selective. gorgeous campus.
cons: really small, populated mostly by hipsters. 75-25 gender ratio. somewhat limited in certain academic areas do to its alternative nature. I found the academic system to be a little too weird for me.

mattmom

I can't address each school individually because I don't knwo them well enough but I do know the locations, and want to point out that Bard and Vassar aren't really all that close to NYC--considerably more than an hour by train. So although you might go the city occasionally for various reasons it's important to realize that you are not in the city--not even in the suburbs, in those two instances. Sarah Lawrenece is closer--Bronxville really is a suburb, but again, you are a train ride away, albeit a much shorter one. check the Metro North schedules to get a clearer sense of that aspect if it is playing a role in your choices.

wemerson5

Yeah...I kinda realized they're not in the city...but the continuity between "LAC" and "NYC" was too much to resist. I talked with a SLC student today and it sounds like a nice place with nearly unparalleled student-professor interaction.

Proud Dad

FWIW: Vassar is over 60% female. Bard is about 56% female. Those are not far off the average rate for most colleges and U's these days (UVA is 56%).Vassar, or rather Poughkeepsie, is on the Metro North commuter train line as is Sarah Lawrence. It can take close to two hours to get from Manhattan to Poughkeepsie and the train station is some distance from the campus. SLC (Bronxville) is about a 20-minute train ride and you can easily walk to the station from campus. Bard is near an Amtrak station (Rhinebeck is about 8-miles away) but you have to get to Poughkeepsie (20 miles) to get the commuter train and though Bard offers a school shuttle to Poughkeepsie, it is sketchy sometimes, especially if you're trying to return to school late at night.

That being said, the distance hasn't kept my DD from making the trip to NYC from Bard whenever she really wanted to. It is possible to also say it has kept her from making the trip when she really should have stayed on campus to get some work done. Another DD at SLC spent more time in the City and now lives there, after graduation, and loves it.

The older D started at a top-10 U and, even though her major put her in a small department, she was unhappy with the restrictions placed on her within her major early-on, the difficulty in pursuing classes outside her major, prerequisites required for taking the upper-level classes, and advantages given to upper-classmen in getting into those classes. She figured she'd need about eight years there to actually get into the level of classes in a double major or minor on prerequisites alone. At SLC there are no majors and no prerequisites. Your Don (advisor) is a full faculty member with only a handful of kids to advise. When it comes to class selection and registration, the students interview the professors individually, and the student makes the decision whether or not they want into the class. Classes are all small and held in conference style and there's no way you cannot get to know your professor on a personal basis. The "no-grades" aspect simply means you get a written critique of your performance from each professor that is personal, detailed, and honest. In addition you hold monthly or more frequent (first year) individual meetings with each professor to discuss your work and progress. If there's no class that fits your goal or desire, you can create one and get a faculty sponsor. Most classes are pretty interdisciplinary, too, often combining science and philosophy, for instance. The experience was perfect for my transfer/graduate and that close relationship with her professors is what got her a personal recommendation for a job in the City.

The other DD at Bard loves the school, loves her friends she made there, and loves her professors. While required to declare a major, she has been courted by other departments and encouraged to explore those avenues in addition to her chosen major: Her philosophy professors all think she should be a literature or philosophy major, and her voice professor thinks she should major in music. No matter which classes she takes, she knows the professors well, talks to them, walks with them, and has nothing but praise for their talent, knowledge, or ability to impart their enthusiasm for the subject. Many are visiting from those top-four U's, or Europe, and most are well-recognized internationally within their specialty. She just got back from Lincoln Center where one of her professors was in concert. And the campus is beautiful, if you like Hudson Valley mansions, the view of the Catskills across the river, and a rural-retreat atmosphere in which to pursue your studies. Don't underestimate what fresh air and beautiful natural vistas can do for your psyche, especially if you've lived in cities all your life. No mention of the strength of Bard can be made without touching on the school's president, Leon Botstein. Google him or just start here: Education Update - Leon Botstein: The Maestro of Annandale

Downside? Both of my DDs hated the amount of cigarette smoking although most schools ban it from their buildings or even close to them. "Hipsters" were not a problem at either school since those superficial stereotypes can be made at any school, anywhere. Most of the kids they know or I've met are bright and serious students who still know how to enjoy life, regardless of what they wear. It's college; you just have to get over it. Any of these schools will have about 50% of the population that receives need-base financial aid. The other half are from families who can afford the $50,000-plus cost-of-attendance at these schools. That alone gives you an idea of the stereotypes one may find there as well as the diversity. (Hint: the students driving the new Mercedes and shopping in the City every weekend aren't normally the ones on scholarship.)

My best advice is to visit each school, if possible. What I or my DDs find charming or exciting at their schools might be a turn-off for you. How any school meets your expectations is what's important, not what anyone else tells you. Go with your heart, but remember there's always the choice to transfer. Many schools appreciate an applicant who's made a decision after experiencing a school. Not a pathway for everyone but it is always available if you just find out your dream school isn't what you dreamed it would be. Good luck!

ThatsWhatSheSaid

Vassar's actually, currently, around 59% female. Not a big difference, but only 3% off Bard, so I wouldn't base any decisions off of that.

liek0806

Vassar student body has an active vegan group, and when i attended an info session they were saying how a lot of the food on campus is not typical college food, ie greasy stuff. that can be a negative for people who like "regular greasy food".

danas

Proud Dad gives honest and informed information.
I'm wondering what the gender scene is at these schools. I understand that they may be majority female, but beyond that, I'm guessing that the homosexual population (larger than at most schools?) may be mostly male. I always imagined that heterosexual males who choose to attend these schools are attracted by the gender ratio. But in point of fact, the male grads I have met aren't exactly Princeton "Tigers".
What is heterosexual life like at these places? What is the plight of heterosexual women?
I'm asking this as a parent who has had two kids at gender balanced schools with a male history, who finds these environments not the greatest, for women in particular.
I'm guess I'm wondering whether there are plenty of schools with "boyish boys" without an overwhelming male culture.

Proud Dad

It's only my opinion, of course, but as the father of daughters who would never consider all-girl schools because they'd miss the boys, I've heard no complaints from either about a lack of male availability. Not to get too personal, but they did go to college for the educational experience, not the dating scene. But one eschewed Wellesley because of a preponderance of emphasis on how many guys they "import" for social events. In fact, the gay population is probably higher at some all-women schools than at those schools with an unbalanced gender population, even those that were traditionally all-female schools. All-girl schools with pink-and-green as their "color" may be the exception.

As for "boyish boys", I'm a grad of a top-U architecture school where manly-men seemed at a premium. That's the case in many art-oriented divisions whether it's theater, music, or studio arts. That's not a slam or a prejudice, just an observation. Though in my experience I would never use Princeton "tigers" as the poster-children for typical heterosexual males, either. Gay isn't restricted to the arts and it's often found in the football locker rooms and in our military. It's just not as openly accepted and as such, not as openly demonstrated. I can't really say of all the colleges I've visited that the ratio of gay to straight is really that far off the general population of the country. When gays feel more comfortable in their environment, they may simply stand out more to those not used to noticing. It hasn't proven to be an uncomfortable situation for most open-minded hetero kids that I know. The reactions of others is a subject for psychological discussion in some other forum. If you or your student are uncomfortable around homosexuals, then you might want to choose a college with that in mind. If they're uncomfortable in the testosterone-heavy Greek-oriented environment, they may well find those schools rated as "gay and lesbian friendly" to simply be more tolerant of all lifestyles and accepting of individuals on their own merits. Otherwise, it's a lot like saying, "I'm a blonde and most of the kids at ABC-U are brunettes. Will I fit in?" It's Life, and learning to judge people on their own merits is really something that should have been learned by the time one gets to college. But that's just why "fit" is much more important than "rank", and that means socially, as well as scholastically.

jarsilver

I saw many more typical jocks at Bard than I'd expected.