sugarplum54

I am beginning to look into the possibility of attending an honors program at a public university (that is MUCH cheaper!) as opposed to a more expensive and prestigious private university. I hope to attend business school to receive my MBA eventually, so I do not want to be completely in debt and unable to afford it. But, I do not know if it will be a disadvantage coming from a not prestigious undergrad school if I am applying to Ivy League business schools and the like. Essentially, is attending an honors program at a public university, that offers an excellent education, (i.e. UofAlabama, Ole Miss, UofGeorgia, Penn State) be worth turning down more prestigious private universities?

ColdWind

Depends on several factors including what schools you are turning down. For example, it would be difficult to turn down Penn's Wharton School of Business for the Honors Program/College at the Univ. of Mississippi, but doing well at Ol' Miss & on the GMAT may increase your chances for admission to Harvard's graduate business school.
Many Honors Programs/Colleges do not deliver everything that they promise, but this is constantly changing so it is best to speak with current students in each Honors Program/College that you are considering.
Alabama & Georgia are strong Honors Programs/Colleges. Arizona's is not. Penn State's was too narrowly focused, but that changed this year when they went to holistic admissions. You may want to check out the Univ. of Arkansas Honors Program/College.

sugarplum54

I'm not looking at Wharton -- one I probably wouldn't get in, two I don't want an environment like that for undergrad. I am looking at private universities like (some of which do not offer business for undergrad) Tufts, Georgetown, Rice, WashU, among others.

seekingknowledge

Is there any type of rating system for public honors colleges? Or is it just opinion and reputation?

hawkette

Sugarplum,
This is a terrific idea for a thread. Thanks very much for creating it.

IMO, one can make a very strong argument that an Honors College at a major public university combines the best of both the public and private worlds.

The arguments most commonly given in favor of an Honors College experience are that:
1. the student population is more consistently strong;
2. the smaller class sizes facilitate greater interaction with your professors and also with a likely more talented peer group;
3. the priority registration privileges allow one to get the classes they need, even in difficult-to-register majors and this facilitates faster progress toward major and graduation goals;
4. on some campuses, the Honors College students get some additional benefits in interviewing with highly competitive employers; and
5. the cost of attendance at the public is almost always less (and sometimes a lot less) than many comparable privates

Most of the arguments above also exist in top private college undergraduate experiences and partly explain why the privates so commonly win in cross-admit battles with publics for top students, especially with OOS top students.

And I would not limit this just to the publics with explicitly defined Honors College. Look also at the publics that have extremely good merit scholarship programs that greatly empower the student and really opens the place up to the student, almost from the first day on campus. Given that great resources are sometimes found at public universities, this benefit should not be overlooked.

SaveOnUndergrad

Hawkette did a great job of summarizing the benefits in a general sense. Let me share my personal experience, perhaps it will give prospective students some insight into possibly going into a public Honors College.

I am from Illinois. I had a 34 ACT, Top 10% at one of the top public schools in the country, National AP Scholar, nothing much else.

I decided to attend Louisiana State University (currently a Freshman). The full ride they offered me had a lot to do with this, but I was also intrigued with the possibilities with the Honors College, etc.

Anyway, I have found the classes designated as Honors have fairly intelligent students that are comparable to most private schools. The regular classes I take are not very challenging, but it is a nice balance that allows me to do well without overextending myself. The significant AP credit I have coming in has allowed me to pursue subjects I find interesting right away, which after years of being told what classes to take is a nice break.

An opportunity that I have as an Honors student and through my scholarship is working with a professor on his research. I have already joined a research team consisting of me, two professors, and two PHD students. I am treated as an equal. I doubt I would have this sort of opportunity at a private school.

I already had local media contact me. I was interviewed for a story on the front page of the Baton Rouge Advocate and in a story on the college website. I was honored as one of the 10 scholarship receipients at a banquet for the Alumni Association. It is a unique opportunity that I would not have at a private university or a top public where I would just be another student. From the way the stories were written, it sounded like the Ivy's were knocking at my door, so to the people here it's like I turned down Harvard to come here, which wasn't exactly the case.

If I continue to excel here, I think I will have a lot of intriguing options. Graduate schools are always looking for diversity in undergrad populations.

And of course the financial situation is a huge relief for my family.

As for some of the negatives, I think the "Honors College feel" is slightly exaggerated. I really do not feel as if I am in a college within a college as I was led to believe.

Also since many large publics tend to be heavy commuter schools, it's not as easy to assimilate socially as it might be at a private school.

If I missed an aspect or if you have any questions for me, I'd be glad to elaborate further.

sugarplum54

Thank you all so much for your responses, it is great hearing other perpsectives. I do not have a 34 ACT (rather a 30) and so I am not quite looking to get full-rides to these honor colleges (congrats SaveOnUndergrad! Your full scholarship is very admirable!), but a decent merit scholarship would be nice. I am coming from an extremely competitive private school which is very small (and in the north) so going to a southern public university would be drastically different for me which is a concerning factor because I'm not quite sure how I would fit in -- but I'm hoping it is a big enough school that I will find my niche. I also am accustomed to extremely small classes so I am hoping that the honors colleges will offer me fairly small classes. Right now, the University of Georgia honors program is sounding very appealing but it looks like the University of Alabama might offer me a greater scholarship. I'm still going to be looking at private universities because the thought of a assimilating to an environment that a southern school fosters (partly because I'm Jewish) is a bit nerve-racking. I did not know that LSU had a good honors program -- I will definitely look into that more! Does anybody else have any other input on the aforementioned honors programs?

ColdWind

I spent several years studying honors programs/colleges at flagship state universities and concluded that the primary benefit was scholarship money. Some universities are better than others at complementing the financial benefits with honors housing, priority course registration & smaller, honors only housing. Some honors programs/colleges bordered on fraud. I can vouch for Alabama, Georgia & Arkansas; I encourage you to be very careful in the selection process. Honors Programs/Colleges improve yearly so long as the program receives adequate funding.
As a Jewish student from the North, Southern universities offer different challenges than attending school in the Northeast.

cpq1xtbu

What about University of Texas, Texas A&M and ASU honors, Coldwind? Did you look into those?

sugarplum54

bump 10char

broetchen

@Cold Wind
I had always heard the Barrett's Honors College at ASU was one of the best in the country. I would be very interested on your take as to why it isn't.

ColdWind

Texas & ASU yes. Texas A & M not in depth. ASU was & is very generous with scholarship money, but had several issues which may or may not have been addressed in the last year. Texas had more than one honors program, if I am recalling correctly. Plan II has a holistic selection process that is kept somewhat secret as it depends on current priorities. Texas is a wonderful state school with a lot of smart students, but a lot of large classes as well. If Plan II gets students into small--less than 30 students--classes, then it is a great opportunity.
I have never recommended ASU's Honor's College to anyone, although the scholarship money may be tempting, it may also be the most expensive "free" money a student accepts, in my opinion.
Honors Programs/Colleges change yearly and there are over 1,000 now if you count each of the programs even though some are different programs at the same university.
The most common disappointment is the promise of small honors students only classes. Finding a university that honors this Honors College promise is sometimes more difficult than one might think. Many honors programs/colleges use "footnoted courses" as substitutes for true honors students only honors courses. Here the student attends a regular large lecture class but, by agreement with the professor, does extra credit work for honors course credit. Other variations are used. Many universities run into funding problems for honors courses or oversell the honors college so that the small honors students only honors courses become few & far between or become "small" classes of fifty (50) or more students.
Benefits of priority class registration & honors only housing can be real & are easily verified.

rockerguyasj

ColdWind, do you know anything about the Honor Colleges/Programs in FL schools such as FSU/UF/UCF?

seekingknowledge

When visiting a public honors college, are there any recommended questions to ask to get to the true strength of the program?

mikemac

Honors colleges are often oversold, the glossy pamphlets giving the impression a small LAC has been set up inside a larger university. Honors colleges do offer some very valuable perks and let you meet some of the top students at your college. But when you're thinking of honors colleges the pitch is often that you're getting an elite private education at the public school price. Sadly, this isn't true.

Depending on the U's program, things may range from taking separate honors classes to taking just one honors seminar per semester. Honors college programs offer the small classes and top profs predominantly for the 1st two years of college, when for liberal arts majors its easier to craft a standard set of offerings that will meet the distribution requirements for almost any major.

It is rare to find more than a token amount of offerings upper-division since the honors program simply doesn't have enough staff to duplicate an entire major or set of majors. So the last two years most/all classes are taken with the rest of the students in the regular U's classes. The teaching of the profs will be geared towards that level, the discussions and student involvement in class will be dominated by the regular students, and so on. And class sizes may balloon, too, if your in a larger public U and a popular major.

Honors colleges do offer some valuable perks in addition to the classes. Typical ones include registering for classes before everyone else so you get the classes you want (a perk worth its weight in gold!), special counselors, guaranteed housing, special library privileges. They will stamp your diploma with some indication of honors college or make a note on your transcript. But I would be skeptical of attending a college for its honors program in place of a more highly regarded U.

As for the OP's particular situation, undergrad school is probably less important than for any other grad program. The better MBA programs expect you to have several years work experience between college and entry to the program. The schools care much more about what you did for 3-5 years after college than where you went to college.