Going to a college "beneath" you - Page 14

HADC10 · 07-05-2009, 06:02 PM

ROF, you commit one of the most common mistakes people make: The assumption that everyone else is like you. Obviously, this is not the case. Some people simply aren't cut out for college. The auto mechanic may find that he derives joy from that profession. Consider someone who, while smart enough for a PhD, goes for a "lesser" professional degree in order to pursue their interests better. If so, than who are you to judge. My ghetto public high school has teachers who went to Harvard and JHU. Even your consideration of career equating with alma matter is flawed. Furthermore, I presume that by the lack of respect you give to a janitor, you wouldn't bother to ask him/her their background. What if he is a recent immigrant. What if she is working the job to pay her way through business school? If I knew you only as someone who goes to Duke, I might be initially impressed, but from the moment you began to express your opinions, my respect for you began to decline.

mj rothlan · 07-05-2009, 06:31 PM

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If what school you went to didn't matter at all, than Cal State Fullerton and Harvard would have an equally influential alumni base and they clearly don't.

No, Harvard does not create great, influential people. People with the potential to be great and influential tend to go Harvard instead of Cal State Fullerton.

MBA Grad 2009 · 07-05-2009, 06:49 PM

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Originally Posted by deprofundis

yes, Miller was a socialist. Is that bad?

Not per se, but it's an important element to the perspective.

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My father had a similar experience to Willie Loman - suddenly and shockingly obsolescent at 52

I'm sorry to hear that. What did he do about it?

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The system Miller was highlighting - including the oftentimes misguided hope implicit in it - hasn't changed all that much, has it?

Yes and no. Technology is always a mixed curse/blessing. I happen to be 49, went back to school for my MBA and pursuing my CPA because it provides me opportunities I do not think I would otherwise get. Life throws a lot of curveballs at you, and while sometimes you can't get a fair shake, it's going to be my advice to see what you can do, because there's always another road besides the one you're on right now.

MBA Grad 2009 · 07-05-2009, 07:06 PM

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Originally Posted by ring_of_fire

If what school you went to didn't matter at all, than Cal State Fullerton and Harvard would have an equally influential alumni base and they clearly don't.

False logic. No one here is saying that the school you go to does not matter at all, we are saying that a person of great ability and accomplishment does not necessarily have to go to a "top" school like Harvard. Steve Jobs went to Reed College but dropped out to start Apple Computers - sounds like he really needed that "top school", huh? Daniel Amos who is the CEO of AFLAC got a Bachelor's Degree for Georgia, and no masters. Georgia must be a top 5 school, huh? Bradbury Anderson who heads up Best Buy went to the University of Denver, must also be one of those "elite" schools, right? George Buckley who is the CEO of 3M? He went to Huddersfield for his Bachelors and Southhampton for his Doctorate. John Chambers of Cisco Systems went to West Virginia for his Bachelors and Indiana for his MBA. Christopher Connor heads up Sherwin-Williams, and he got his BA from Ohio State. That's just for starters. The fact is, more top CEOS did not go to a "top" school than did. Schools with name recognition can help a person at the start of their career, and different schools provide different advantages in alumni networks and so on, but the plain fact is that the school itself is far less important than the caliber of the student, and your argument that a person cannot hope for the top rewards without the "right" school is utter bilge. The argument that a person who works a manual labor job does so in penance for poor choices or laziness early in life is not worth stuff I flush down the toilet.

noimagination · 07-05-2009, 08:29 PM

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What's with these new screen names "ring_of_light" and "enforcer" claiming to know "ring_of_fire" in real life? I wonder if all three are one and the same person trying to seek notoriety on these forums.

You're ruining the surprise! Let people figure it out for themselves...

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In the spirit of July 4, I sincerely hope that ROF doesn't live in America. He/she/it stands against everything this country was founded on.

Really? I was under the impression this country was founded on the backbreaking labor of slaves...

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I'm tired of living in a country that rewards mediocrity and "participation"

So am I. But if either of us really cared, we would be studying right now instead of wasting time bantering back and forth on this forum.

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the computers were all IBM (HAL being a clever play on the initials)

I've always loved that.

deprofundis · 07-06-2009, 06:10 AM

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My father had a similar experience to Willie Loman - suddenly and shockingly obsolescent at 52

I'm sorry to hear that. What did he do about it?

He was the marketing manager of a printing company; when he and everyone else was fired, he got a job as an insurance salesman. He couldn't stand it; he was being told to deceive potential customers. He got a job instead in a furniture store, and was enjoying it because he did it well - as in, you may as well do anything as well as you can. Then he got cancer and died a year and a half ago. Thanks for asking.

MBA Grad 2009 · 07-06-2009, 08:57 AM

I am truly sorry to hear about your father, deprofundis. I don't know if it will help, but I was diagnosed myself with pseudomyxoma peritonei, a rare abdominal cancer which is treatable but not curable, in 2006. It makes me sort of carpe diem in focus. Also, back in 2000 I lost a job because the company owner expected me to lie on the books. Honesty cost my position, so I have some knowledge on that score.

deprofundis · 07-06-2009, 02:05 PM

MBA Grad 2009 - I am moved that you would post this. I don't quite know what to say, except that you never know what might happen. I understand about the carpe diem - do you know the Walter de la Mare lines: "Look thy last on all things lovely every hour" ? And it's brilliant about the MBA.
We have a lot of hoo-ha in England at the moment because of MPs charging ineligible expenses to the public purse. It's interesting that representatives of the people seem to have less moral probity than those they represent.
Isn't this so much nicer than arguing with ROF?

ag54 · 07-06-2009, 03:10 PM

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My frame of reference is my dad and the parents of most of my family friends for that matter. They all came from modest means and through hard work and dedication propelled themselves to economic success. Many of them grew up in areas which had political unrest, a lack of proper infrastructure(roads, public facilities, etc.), electricity and very few educated adults to guide them.

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STOP FOCUSING ON THE EXCEPTIONS.

Exactly. Your father is the exception. You are not. You are the typical 2nd generation kid of immigrant parents who has had everything handed to him because his parents never wanted him to experience the hardship that they had growing up. You have had education provided to you (and shoved down your throat). You have been told that the Ivies and (since you probably didn't get into HYPSD), to a lesser extent, Duke are the only schools worth attending, and you are a loser if you don't get into one of them. Etc. Etc.

I read threads like this on CC all the time... The only difference with this thread is that either you are so detatched from reality that you actually believe the crap you are spewing, or you are just being a troll and flaming on CC as a way to make the summer go by.

MBA Grad 2009 · 07-06-2009, 03:22 PM

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Originally Posted by deprofundis

I don't quite know what to say, except that you never know what might happen.

No worries, medicine moves fast at times. In my case the bad news is the tumors never leave but as long as they each stay below 2 cm there's little chance they will metastasize. Of course there's no guarantee, but I'm lucky to live in a town with MD Anderson right here, and my wife has been a great help. The first oncologist was a git but once I got to MDA things have gone rather smoothly, not counting the joys of needles, IVs, and the various places they put barium to have a look. I've just had one surgery and may not need another - how's this for strange: I ruptured my appendix with a kidney stone, and in taking out the appendix they found the tumors. They'd have never found them until it was too late, except for busting the appendix. As a result, they caught it very early and started treatment as soon as I found a doctor with a clue. The tumors have been treated with drugs to keep them from growing and it seems that simple - as long as they don't grow, they don't go aggressive.

Thanks about the MBA, but that's the easy part, the management classes especially. Taxation and FAR will kick my butt until I've all but memorized the data. I started with the Gleim texts and flashcards from Becker.

I also like Edna St. Vincent Millay on that topic:

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"Quietly they go, the intelligent, the witty, the brave.
I know. But I do not approve. And I am not resigned."

Our friend ROF seems to have taken the hint and done a bunk. Better than bickering, but I would prefer that he could have learned from us.

Thanks.

ring_of_fire · 07-06-2009, 03:23 PM

ag54,

What in the world is HYPSD? I think state schools are perfectly fine. I almost went to one in fact, but it wasn't considerably cheaper than the private schools I was admitted to.

What are you trying to argue? In the end, I understand the value of an education while many people in America do not while the importance of going to college is shoved down their throats on a daily basis.

I'm not talking necessarily about drug-ravished families in inner cities. I'm talking about the kids who I grew up and who went to the same school system I did that decided not to pursue higher education, went to local community colleges or dropped out of college due to their incompetence and lack of ambition.

I'm sure many of these individuals will end up as low-level employees like janitors at my school system or other ones in the same area. They do not deserve praise or admiration for wasting lemons instead of turning them into lemonade.

I urge you all to grow up and stop throwing this political correctness BS in order to make it seem that everyone in this country is a superstar. There are millions of people who are leading underwhelming lives because they didn't take advantage of the resources they had around them.

MBA Grad 2009 · 07-06-2009, 03:28 PM

Ah, I wrote too soon. ROF, I feel it is my responsibility to remind you that there are many fine decaffeinated brands on the market, just as tasty as the real thing.

... Annnnnnnnnnnnnd if you could be so kind, could you make just a smidgen of an effort to reply in context?

Thanks ever so much.

ag54 · 07-06-2009, 03:37 PM

HYPSD?

You have 200+ posts on CC and you don't know this?

Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Dartmouth, and I should have added a C for Cornell, but it is generally looked down upon by Ivy snobs on CC.

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I'm talking about the kids who I grew up and who went to the same school system I did that decided not to pursue higher education, went to local community colleges or dropped out of college due to their incompetence and lack of ambition.

I thought you said that you grew up wealthy, but then I looked at your past posts and saw you are from Detroit, so I can see that there might be many drop outs. Poor Detroit!! It has such lovely architecture - too bad it looks like Beirut now.

MBA- So glad to hear that you have found great care at MD Anderson. We truly are lucky to have such a great medical facility in our city.

MBA Grad 2009 · 07-06-2009, 04:15 PM

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Originally Posted by ag54

So glad to hear that you have found great care at MD Anderson. We truly are lucky to have such a great medical facility in our city.

Thank you, ag54, we really are. What really sets MDA apart in my mind, is that they take care of the family as well. It's very difficult for my wife to sit out there in a waiting room for three-four hours at a time, so the hospitality volunteers bringing around coffee and magazines let her know she's not forgotten, and the nurses there are the best anywhere at letting family know what's happening. They even have a color-coded "scoreboard" to let the family know what's going on at that moment, and how long they have to wait.

vinnyli · 07-06-2009, 04:18 PM

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What are you trying to argue? In the end, I understand the value of an education while many people in America do not while the importance of going to college is shoved down their throats on a daily basis.

There is "education", then there is education. Education through academia (who ever told you community college is not education) is only one kind of education (and honestly, you can learn the same things from universities as you do from wikipedia and a ginormous library). There is a lot more to be learned outside of academia, in extra-curricular activities, marriage, friendship, and yes, even dirty work. ROF, you need to learn that you do not need to go to college to be highly educated. All you need is time to explore and reflect.

I value education as much as the smartest man in the world, but I am better educated than to insult people who are not as fortunate or do not have enough as I am. Nor am I educated enough to put accomplished people on a pedestal. I judge people by their characters; I have friends who try hard but get B's and C's, and I hate some people who get A's because they look down on certain crowds. There is a lesson learned in humility and humbleness, because you are not going to get far in life without an open mind and a kind heart. Stop sounding like the pigs in Animal Farm. In life, character counts for much more than a piece of paper (unless that piece of paper is a credit card bill). Only until you understand that are people going to respect you.