Dmitra

Today I got mail from Evangel University in Springfield,Missouri and I looked at their programs. I saw that they have a Music Industry program with the subcategories of Music Business and Recording Technology.

The names of those courses are so clear cut. As some of you may know, it is VERY hard to find a Sound Engineering or Audio Production course in a college because they either don't have it or call it something else. That's what's the most frustrating.

My problem is, is that I want those exact programs of Music Business and Recording Technology, or Sound Engineering and Audio Production at a school in Oklahoma.

I need to stay in state because OHLAP will pay for most of it.

So does anyone know of schools in Oklahoma, or even a few hours away from Oklahoma, that have some form of

1. Music Business
2. Recording Technology
3. Sound Engineering
or
4. Audio Production

lynxinsider

Gosh, at least apply to Belmont in Nashville and see what kind of aid they throw your way. You never know, it may end up being a wash in terms of cost, and Belmont is the best in music industry.

literary

Audio Engineering Society Education Directory: AES Education Directory
Look up schools by state or region or program

Do some informational interviewing. Find people doing what you want to do, contact them, and ask how they got there. You can find opportunities you might not have thought of.

Look for bargains. Be aware that a program may be highly rated and be in a state school with lower tuition than a private school with higher tuition.

Read books by people who have acquired money for college: Ben Kaplan, How to Go to College Almost for Free, $90,000; Marianne Ragins, Winning Scholarships for College, 3rd ed, $400,000; Gen and Kelly Tanabe, various books, $100,000 to go to Harvard collectively.

Go to ScholarshipExperts.com: Scholarships, Scholarship, College Scholarships, Scholarship Search as well as FastWeb : Scholarships, Financial Aid, Student Loans and Colleges

Good luck.

violadad

Beyond the link to the AES site, there is some info in the music major forum Music Major - College Confidential. If you can't find it by searchuing, I'd be happy to pull up some threads.

boysx3

University of Denver and American University also have good music industry programs, and are generous with both financial aid and merit money. Don't limit yourself to Oklahoma at the application stage...apply to schools that interest you, without picking a favorite, and then crunch and compare the numbers when you have all of them in April.

House of London

Syracuse University Bandier program.

College of Visual and Performing Arts : The Bandier Program for Music and the Entertainment Industries

laurenmr

Middle Tennessee State University (just outside Nashville) is affordable, gives good aid, and has an excellent music business program. Indiana University also gives good aid to out of state students, and they have a great audio technology program (and a new music business program operated jointly with their world-famous business and music schools)

Lauren

KandKsmom

It is not in the state of Oklahoma, but if you are looking for another school that has a terrific Music Industry and business program, you could look East to Virginia and James Madison University in Harrisonburg. It is a state school, and although they don't offer a lot in merit money, it wouldn't hurt to try to see what type of FA they could come up with. Here is a link to their program:

Career and Academic Planning - James Madison University

Good luck to you and your search!

P JAMISON

I've performed pretty exhaustive research in this area. I am assuming that when you mention audio engineering, you are referring to music audio (rather than TV, radio & film).

You are correct that different schools use a dizzying and frustrating variety of titles for these fields. Recognize that there are great differences in philosophies and emphases. From our experience, I urge you to review websites thoroughly, request any DVDs, call the schools, visit the schools, and have appointments with the actual department profs, including seeing the actual equipment and studios. You almost certainly won't get the info you want and need at the very general Open Houses. Unfortunately, it took us awhile to realize this. You may have to push for the appointments, but be persistent. (Belmont Univ. & Butler Univ. were extremely accomodating for appointments). If you are a solid applicant for a given school, they should be willing to have someone invest 30-60 minutes to allow you to really learn about the program. Tell them your SATs and GPA if necessary. If the school refuses, that may tell you something. Most schools and profs are proud of their programs and studios (and you want them to be).

For reasons which have eluded me, we have found that schools seem to have no idea how other schools have structured their programs. As a result, don't expect meaningful comments by one school about another. School guidance counsellors were of no help for us. They, and others, only recommended schools which required music auditions.

You first should decide whether you want a music industry/music business (MI) program, an Audio Enginering Technology (AET) program or a combination. The majority of AET programs require a music audition, and most (about 75%) of those require a classical instrument. If you want a stand-alone AET major and don't (or don't want to) play classical, the number of schools is pretty small. My son's search fits into this category. If you do not follow the classical music route, then you should decide whether you want a school that has at least some performance (i.e. jazz, rock) Many schools take the view that you'll be better in AET if you understand what it is like from the musician's point of view. Personally, I think that approach is wise, provided the performance requirement is capped at about 12-15 credits. Otherwise, you really getting a music degree (which is obviously fine if that's what you want). It will help to ask for a sample freshman schedule. Try to speak with program graduates.

If you want music production, check SUNY Purchase and Northeastern.

As to the variation in programs, you really need to ask numerous questions to determine if a school's program matches your desires. Some are 100% MI; some are 80/20% MI/AET; and some are 100% AET. With those blends, their may or may not be music performance requirements. The schools already believe they have the right blend. The real question, however, is it the best blend for YOU. Do NOT rely upon only degree titles. Amazingly, one prominent school has an AET major which have less recording credits than another school's(SUNY Oneonta) AET minor (Oneonta also has a MI major.)

The only centralized body of information I could find for audio engineering was through the website for the Audio Engineering Society (AES). The website splits the country into regions. I re-organized the schools into states. My list is at the end. Note that AES does not vouch for these schools. Instead, the list includes schools that are society members (and therefore likely to have at least some AET classes). You really need to check each school to determine whether it has a major, a minor, a certicate program or simply some AET classes. Find out how AET credits are in the major, minor etc. Oral Roberts is the only Oklahoma school on AES's list. The AES list is a only headstart.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
ALL COLLEGES
*Listed in AES (64 schools)

ARKANSAS
*Univ. Arkansas (Pine Bluff)

CALIFORNIA
*Cal. Institute of Arts
*Cal Lutheran Univ.
*Cal. State @ Domin. Hills
*Cal. State @ Chico
*Cogswell College
*Sonoma State
*USC
--AUDITION
San Francisco St.
Cal. State Monterey
Cal. State Northridge ("CSUN")
--AUDITION: classical or jazz

COLORADO
*Univ. Colorado @ Denver
--NO AUDITION/AUDITION

CONNECTICUT
*Univ. of Hartford: classical
--AUDITION

*Univ. New Haven
--NO AUDITION

D.C.
*American Univ.
--NO AUDITIO

FLORIDA
*Univ. Miami
--Has major & minor in Music Business & Entertainment Industry, which includes
recording (Frost School of Music);
--AUDITION for Music School

*Internat'l Academy of Design & Tech. (Tampa)

*Full Sail (Orlando)
Florida State (Tallahasse)

GEORGIA
*Georgia Southern (Statesboro)
--Has minor in Music Technology

Univ. Georgia (Athens)
--Offers Certificate in Music Recording

Georgia State (Atlanta)
--AUDITION

Savannah State

ILLINOIS
*Columbia College (Chicago)

*Elmhurst College
--AUDITION

*Greenville College
--Music Bus. Degree w/ two req’d classes (2 credits each) in recording

INDIANA
*Ball State (Muncie)
--Has Major and a Minor in Music Technology
--AUDITION

*Indiana Univ. @ Bloomington
--NO AUDITION

*Purdue Univ. (W. Lafayette)

Butler Univ. (Indy.)
--NO AUDITION

LOUISIANA
*Univ. Louis. @ Lafayette
Loyola Univ. (New Orleans)

MAINE
*N. E. School of Commun. (Bangor)
*Univ. Maine (Augusta


MARYLAND
*Johns Hopkins
--AUDITION: Classical

MASS.
*Univ. Mass. Lowell
--AUDITION:
--Two options:
1) Music Biz major (w/ no recording classes)
2) Sound recording (w/ no biz classes)

*Berklee School of Music
--AUDITION & interview required

*New England Inst. of Art

Northeastern
--NO AUDITION
--Really composition (versus recording)

Emerson
--AUDITION & interview required

MICHIGAN
*Univ. Michigan
--AUDITION
--BS in Sound Engineering

MINNESOTA
*St. Mary's Univ. (Winona)
--AUDITION
--BA in Music Industry w/ core classes, then splits into (1) Music Technology or ( 2) Music
Business.

*McNally Smith College of Music
(St. Paul) formerly “Musictech")

MISSOURI
*Webster Univ.
*Missouri Western State

MONTANA
*Montana State Univ. (Bozeman) .
--AUDITION

NEW HAMPSHIRE
*Keene State

NEW JERSEY
*Wm. Paterson
--AUDITION: Classical

Stevens Institite of Tech.
--NO AUDITION

NEW YORK
*Ithaca College
---AUDITION: classical

*Mercy College (White Plains)

*SUNY Fredonia
--Has BS in Sound Recording Technology
--AUDITION-classical

*CUNY Sonic- commuter

*NYU
--AUDITION

SUNY ONEONTA
--NO AUDITION
--music industry major (biz.& perf.) and music recording minor (35 credits)

SUNY Potsdam
--Has Music Business Minor

SUNY Purchase
--Has Music Production Degree

Hofstra
---No music recording (film, TV & radio only)

Syracuse
--Multi-discipline approach for new, small program; not heavy on recording
--Audition for music industry
--NO AUDITION for Bandier (new multi-discipline program)

Five Towns College (L.I.)

SAE (NYC)

NORTH CAROLINA
*Appalachian State (Boone)
*Barton (Wilson)
*Univ. North Carolina (Asheville)
--AUDITION required (for BS in Music Tech.)
Elon Univ. (Elon)
--AUDITION required; program 2 years old; 24 kids in music tech.

OHIO
*Bowling Green

*Capital Univ. (Columbus)

---Music Technology Major splits into BA & BM (heavy music perf. + requires audition)
---BA students (NO AUDITION) can take BM classes


*Oberlin
--AUDITION; Conservatory
*Ohio Univ. (Athens)
*Univ. Cincinnati
*Cleveland Institute of Music


OKLAHOMA
*Oral Roberts

OREGON
*Univ. Oregon (Eugene)
--Can’t confirm program via website

PENNSYLVANIA
*Drexel
--NO AUDITION:
--Music industry w/ 5 year Co-op

*Lebanon Valley College
--AUDITION

York College
--AUDITION

SOUTH CAROLINA
*Clemson
--UDITION required (instrument unknown)
*Univ. South Carolina
--AUDITION required, music perf. dominated

TENNESSEE
*Belmont (Nashville)
--NO AUDITION;

*Middle Tenn. State (Murfreesboro)
--BM degree w/ concentration in music industry
--AUDITION
*Univ. Memphis .
--AUDITION
--BM in Music Industry with concentration in either Music Business or Music Recording

VIRGINIA
*Hampton
-- Music Eng. Tech.
--AUDITION on classical
*Radford
--AUDITION

TEXAS
*Univ. Texas @ Arlington
*Texas State (San Marcos)

WISCONSIN
*Univ. Wisconsin @Oshkosh

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also have two Add-On lists (including Okla. St.), as follows:

A.ADD-ONS

1. From AES Section Contacts)

-Duquesne (Pittsburgh)-has AUDITION (1) perf. & 2) musicianship classical or jazz
-Penn State, Univ. Park-Has Minor in Music Technology (21 credits)
-McGill (Montreal)
-Worcester Polytech (Worcester, Mass.)
-Carnegie Mellon (Pittsburgh)-Classical AUDITION
-Univ. Illinois @ Urbana-Champaign, Urbana-AUDITION can be jazz bass
-Southwest Texas State (San Marcos)-same school as Texas State above
-San Diego State
-Stanford
-BYU

2. From “Mix” Magazine

-DePaul-AUDITION
-Fairfield-Music major w/ one class in each of MI, MIDI & recording
-Va. Tech (Virginia Polytech)-AUDITION
-SMU
-Univ. Texas Austin-AUDITION
-Univ. Arizona-Fine Arts Tech. degree: combines music/sound w/ visual
-Towson
-Shenandoah (Va.)
-Okla. State
-Ohio Univ. (Zanesville)
-Univ. Missouri-Kansas City
-Art Institute of Phil.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once again, check into these Add-On schools yourself to verify.

I have also compiled a list of questions about to ask colleges about heir AET programs. If you want those questions, let me know.

Finally, I agree that you should broaden your geographic scope. At the least, it will sharpen your eye to differentiate between different programs. It may also help you you negotiate better for financial aid.

I hope this helps you and others.

violadad

P JAMISON, thanks for an extremely informative overview on a topic that is often broached, yet typically reveals few definitive answers or a broad scope of potential options.

If I may add just a couple of points, the student searching for this type of program (music technology, music business, music industry,music management, music engineering, audio engineering, sound recording, etc.) will be confronted with confusing terminology and different names for degree paths at different institutions. At four year institutions, the end degree could well be a BA, a BS, or a BM depending on focus. UHartford/Hartt as an example has two: an AET BS option through The College of Engineering, and an audition based MT/MI/MB focused BM through Hartt; similar options exist elsewhere. The right options will be based on the student's focus, academic skills and stats, and in some cases current level of musical talent and ability (the BM variant will most likely be an audition driven admit, adding another factor in the admissions/application process, something else to be aware of).

As you say, the devil is in the details. Besides direct department contact, one of the best places to initially explore a program (or any specialized degree path) is within a school's undergrad catalog or handbook. Typically found in a link off an institution's academic webpages, it's normally a large pdf or word file, and details all policies, procedures, and degree requirements. Comparing degree options, credit distributions, and coursework between and within seemingly similar majors will allow a student to compare disparate paths within and between the various institutional offerings.

For those interested in digging deeper, there are a number of past threads within CC's Music Major - College Confidential forum. I'd suggest searching within that forum as there is some program and school specific info available. Because of the conflicting program names, search this forum/advanced/"keyword"/search titles only/show threads will be the most efficient. Substituting "music business", "music industry", "music technology", "sound recording", "audio technology" and similar names as keywords will bring up between a page or two of past threads within each.

P, in the spirit of your reply, I've cross linked it within the music major forum.

Dmitra

Thank you everyone soo much! I'm very glad I have all this information, and before I had nothing and no idea about what to do or where to begin. You have definitely made me a step closer to considering what kind of school I want to go to.

P JAMISON

Violadad: Thanks for your kind words. Thanks also for your comments about the different types of dgrees which are involved. Frankly, I was too worn out chasing curriculum to really consider the particular types of degee involved. Do you think there is any diference in employment prospects between a BA and BS degree in AET? Hopefully, it's the substance and reputation of the program, rather than degree type.

Dmitra: You are welcome. If you can identify what your preferences have, I might be able to provide some further info. There are just too many variables to attempt to anticpate what you may want. Are you a senior and if so, what are your stats? If you are a senior, it's time to kick into high gear!

To my chagrin, I see that my post includes some typos. Hopefully, it is all uderstandable. First, I am a poor and plodding typist. Second, I had to do much cutting and pasting to list the schools. I then had to edit/delete some personal opinions in objective fairness to the schools, and to not unfairly influence others. I had also performed the whole cut/paste process earlier but to my horror, lost it before I had transmitted it. I had to send it before I
self-destructed again.

With time to recharge, I have several more comments. I must at least mention technological schools. The three that I know of are Full Sail in Orlando, McNally Smith in St. Paul, Minnesota and the Conservatory of Music in Arizona. When I reviewed Full Sail about 1 1/2 years ago, it was not accredited by the applicable regional collegiate body. What this meant was that most 4 year schools would not accept the transfer of credits from its classes (or AA degree). I am almost certain that Full Sail now offers a BA (and perhaps BS degrees). I do no know its current regional accreditation status and the transferablity of its credits/AA degrees. I mean no sllght to this school, as it apparently has fantastic equipment and instructors. If you're looking for just the nuts and bolts of recording (or many other disciplines), Full Sail and the others technical schools apparently can well provide that. It is not a standard college experience, however. I believe Full Sail has you attend classes for about 1 1/2 years straight, with no summer off and only short breaks. There is usually a small, instruction-efficient campus or series of buildings, rather than the "quad" at most 4 year schools. You probably will need to find your own off-campus housing and there are usually no school sports teams. I mention the accredidation issue only to serve notice to someone who might get an AA degree at a technical school with the plan to complete 2 more years at a 4 year school and then receive a BA. It might not work. If that's the plan, confirm that everything transfers at the outset. I understand the resistance to acceptance of credits to be based uopn the absence of other core curriculum (i.e. English, math) than to weakness in the classes at technical schools.

If it matters, I believe that Full Sail's program cost was approximately $85k and the Conservatrory of Music was about $28k. These are old numbers.

The benefits of the technical schools are that you don't need to take classes in which you have no interest, you finish far earlier and probably for a significantly lower cost. Clearly, there is a need and a place for the technical schools. My son wants a BA degree and I considr that wise. It depends what you want. The negatives are the absence of a traditional college experience and perhaps, transferablity. The positives of a 4 year schools are a classic college experience and campus, the ablilty to take electives or double major/minors and the option to change majors, within the same school, if you decide that the original major is not what you want.

We did speak to a 2006 Drexel MI/AET grad who was hired to do sound work at BB King's at Times Square in New York. That employer was only willing to consider applicants who had 4 year degrees. Whether this is a prevalent attitude is unknown.

After I recharge again, I'll provide my list of questions when to pose visiting MI and AET schools.

Lastly, the schools we have visited for AET are: Drexel, Syracuse, Ithaca, SUNY Oneonta, American, Northeastern, Univ. New Haven, Indiana Univ. @ Bloomington, Butler and Belmont. If you have any specific questions about these schools, let know. We also saw Rutgers, Cornell, Hobart, Boston College and Emerson for general purposes. We are in New Jersey.

violadad

P, I don't have the background or knowledge to suggest which degree is "better" for a specific student, or a specific career path. A science based acoustic program may be better suited for engineering/design work, but a music based focus might be more beneficial for someone wanting a more music technology/recording/studio production type of career. In many cases, it's the internship and network opportunities a program can present, and within what fields. In the case of the music world, so much is based on talent, network, and just plain luck. It's true across many disciplines.

I can give some general overview of the basic differences between the degree types and typical curriculum distributions, but realize these are generalizations and can swing heavily in either direction depending on an institution. At some, I would expect a BA to approach the BS level at another. The devil is in the details, the degree requirements, for an accurate and indepth examination.

A BA is typically a liberal arts focus with percentages of 25-35% within the major, and the remaining distribution across general and elective requirements.

Both the BM and BS can be called (pre) professional degrees, and the distribution swings the other way with 65-75% of the degree requirements within the major, the balance in general and elective requirements. You might also find a few programs with a BFA designation, and these tend to fall within the BS/BM distribution parameters. In general, BM/BS/BFA designations are discipline heavy, and involve both a good deal of both theory and applied methodology coursework, and in many cases practicum/lab or lab type coursework; for want of a better word, "a hands on, down and dirty, learning by experience degree" over a broader based liberal arts based curriculum. As an example, a BA, BM or BS label can be applied to a music ed degree. In many cases, the coursework between a BM and a BS will be virtually identical, or it may be a bit more music focused at some institutions, a bit more "ed" focused at others.

The percentages will vary by school and program. Again, these are generalizations. And I don't have the engineering or music tech background to guide you effectively. Please research and verify. I am not an expert, nor do I claim to have more than a slightly informed passing knowledge of the breath and scope of these types of programs. My limited expertise is more directly related to higher level music performance and music ed options. (I can comment and point out information for those schools/programs with strong music focus for those interested.)

I do want to point out that a few on your list (Full Sail, McNally-Smith, a few of the tech schools, potentially Conservatory of AZ) are for profit institutions, unlike the majority of not for profit educational institutions typically discussed on CC. As such their focus and purpose may well be different. My purpose is not to disparage the programs or institutions, but realize their focus academically or philosophically may not be the same as IU/Jacobs, or Drexel or UNH. Just pointing out the difference for those unaware, and with any program, I urge all to investigate and research fully. They may well work, they may not, but realize that you are comparing apples and oranges.

I wish I could point out a few posters with greater discipline specific knowledge. You might want to seek out kmmcrindle, JustADadinOhio, and edad from the music major forum. There may well be very good info within the engineering subforum for the science based AET programs.

violadad

In the interest of completeness and alternative viewpoints, I quickly (title) searched the engineering major forum for "audio technology", "audio engineering", "acoustical engineering", "sound engineering", "sound recording" and other various permutations.

This is all that came up, and please note the dates. Those with interest may wish to expand the search terms, and try searching for posts as opposed to title threads.

acoustic engineer?
What types of engineering......

jazzguitarmom

Do try to check out Berklee's Music Production and Engineering program.
S is a guitarist but is very interested in working with MP&E students and thought about taking on a double major. He took a Music Production workshop there this summer which was incredibly informative and rigorous. He's done a lot of recording and enjoys it but decided quickly that he'd rather stay with the performance side. He has nothing but great respect for the engineers at Berklee.
MP&E students have to get in on a principal instrument- thus assuring that engineers have a performance background as well which can only help. Once in they can then apply for the program. Its very competitive but S says that the exposure to working professionals in the field is astonishing. He's amazed to see VERY well known folks around campus regularly. The opportunity for engineering students to work with real, up and coming artists is great at Berklee. The relationship works to the benefit of both artist and engineer- networking is what the place is about.