RML

OP,

if you can get into Berkeley Engineering (...and for In-State tuition), it doesn't sound sensible to abandon it for a school like Virginia Tech, Rochester, Purdue, NYU-Poly or even CMU, Cornell, Michigan, Northwestern or Duke and the like unless you really hated Berkeley. I can understand turning down Berkeley Engineering for MIT, Stanford or Princeton, but for CMU? It doesn't sound sensible to me, to be honest. Berkeley Engineering is a solid top 3 in America, and Berkeley is a global name.

monydad

I don't necessarily agree with that, as a blanket matter. I think CMU has a great reputation in engineering, and its undergraduate students are very good. I would imagine CMU is both good enough and well known enough in the field that its students should get interviews by the major companies, and then, if you but get an interview, whether you are good enough is a function of you as an individual, not your school.

On the other hand, there is a regional bias to recruiting generally, everyplace, and Berkeley likely provides greater access to employers on the West coast.

Berkeley undoubtedly has more of a global name, but that's more graduate school related and most engineers plan domestic employment anyway. At the undergrad level, domestically, I don't think the difference in the name brand , as an undergrad, will get you much more juice one vs. the other. Except on the West coast, maybe.

IMO all major engineering employers know CMU, and its grads are well respected.

RML

moneydad, If the OP gets into Berkeley Engineering, than this is going to be a case of Berkeley In-State vs CMU for engineering. In such case, Berkeley wins hands down. Why?

1. Berkeley engineering is superior to CMU Engineering although not by much as CMU is also quite good for engineering. But, of course, Berkeley is a solid top 3 for engineering in America. CMU is lagging behind and is in competition with several others for the 4th best spot.

2. The Berkeley name is more prestigious than the CMU name whether in the East Coast, MidWest, South and even more so in the West Coast.

3. Berkeley is cheaper than CMU as he's in-state.


Considering all those factors, again, unless he's willing to burn all his parents' savings to a school that's less prestigious, and not even as good academically, he should aim for Berkeley. If he wants a more solid engineering school offering solid engineering program that’s more well-regarded than Berkeley, then there is only one school that fits the bill – MIT.



I would bet that the Berkeley Engineering name is well respected across America. It does not seen inferior to CMU even in the East Coast.

I don't think many employers see it that way. Employers and people, in general, don’t ask engineers if they’ve studied in Berkeley engineering for undergrad of postgrad. All they care is the Berkeley engineering degree, knowledge and skills.

monydad

1. It's M-O-N-Y dad, not $$$$
2. I don't know what "many" employers do, but back in the day I was hired out of an East coast school by a large midwestern engineering consulting firm, and they did not recruit at Berkeley, so far as I know. They did not recruit at Stanford either. But they recruited at MIT. Not because they did not think these other places were well-regarded, but they found what they wanted more locally. Ie, regional bias. The names of these colleges were respected there, but at the same time they weren't recruiting there for jobs. You can't eat respect.

3) If hiring undergrad they care about the skills and capabilities of the particular undergrad individual they would be hiring. Undergrad capabilities at CMU and Berkeley clearly overlap, both are likely well-trained. Engineering insiders are perfectly capable of distinguishing between grad and undergrad,there really aren't that many top engineering schools at the end of the day, and these people aren't idiots.

The reality is you will get to work and there will be people hired, and advancing, from lower ranked schools than either of these places, and they will be promoted based on their individual capabilities. You will work for some of them. There are few industries where undergrad pedigree means less than engineering (within reason), talent is distributed at many places and it is all about where's the beef/ what can you do. Not your school, to the same degree as some other fields. Schools matter when deciding where to recruit, but the recruting list does not always look like a list from US News; it will frequently be regionally-influenced, and generally include many lower-ranked regionals.

RML

^ Okay; but that's too assuming that the OP would really want to remain in the East Coast after graduation. And should the OP decide to head NE after earning an engineering degree from Berkeley, I don't think he would have a problem getting one, if jobs are available.

BTW, sorry for misspelling your name.

monydad

"And should the OP decide to head NE after earning an engineering degree from Berkeley, I don't think he would have a problem getting one, if jobs are available."

And again, I see no reason why the same would not be said, to the same extent, about a graduate of CMU. It is a highly regarded engineering school with student capabilities clearly overlapping with Berkeley's engineering undergrads, both are well-known to industry insiders and employers. I would imagine at that extent of 'brand" capability overlap, employers would be looking to the individual.

RML

^ again, except that CMU would cost him a lot more than going to Berkeley. And CMU is not worth more than Berkeley. Maybe MIT is. But not CMU Eng'g or even Cornell Eng'g or Columbia Eng'g or Penn Eng'g.

monydad

But he doesn't want to go the Berkeley, too close to home, he says, wants the change in scenery, so then the issue would be can he go where he wants, if he can afford it, so long as it is not shooting himself in the foot, career-wise. Whatever the differences may be, to me they are in the noise and I don't think CMU represents a shot foot, by comparison. YMMV.

On the other hand, I agree that if Berkeley is a thriftier alternative for him, and he can get in, it would be an excellent alternative. If he but wanted to go there.

BordomBeThyName

Alright, as to this whole CMU/Berkeley debate:

Financially, my family can pay for four years of private college. We have it worked out, it isn't an issue.

I don't particularly want to go to Berkeley because my whole life, I've been planning on going somewhere on the east coast. I want to get about as far away from home as I can for these 4 years.

Carnegie Mellon's program appeals to me not just because of the location and quality of the school, but because I'm also planning on getting a minor in Architecture, and CMU's program is one of the best in the nation. Also, CMU's huge arts and theater programs are a draw for more artistic types, and a size 1/5 that of Berkeley keeps them less segregated from the engineers and math/science types.

As for post-college employment, it's not my primary concern. I don't want to be an engineer for the money, I want to be an engineer because I love the design and build process. A CMU engineer can find a job, even if it isn't the absolute highest paying. If I just wanted a good education with a high starting salary, I'd stay here at Lafayette. It ranks number 7 in the nation for starting salary. I'm transferring because I'm not getting the experience that I want, because the people here aren't "my" people.

As for MIT, I can't get in there, I'm not kidding myself. My only chance at getting into a school of MIT's caliber is through a 3/2 program, which doesn't look likely.

As it stands, here are the schools I'm looking into (I've included the 3/2 programs which I will investigate further in the coming days/weeks). Some of these schools are long-shots.

Bard College (3/2 or 4/2 with Columbia)
Brown
Carnegie Mellon University
Case Western Reserve University
Juniata (3+2 with Columbia, haven't found much info though)
NYU
Oberlin College (3/2 with U. Penn)
Swarthmore
WPI

monydad

I actually thought about Brown for you, but it's tough to get in. Ditto Swarthmore.

BordomBeThyName

Yeah, I know. I'm not too sure about my chances on either of those, but applying can't hurt. I've got the free time in my day (because despite taking the hardest classes they would let me take, I don't feel challenged at all, and next semester will be even easier) so I'll have time to build up some good quality applications.

So, just like last time, I'll apply to some long-shot schools, and see if there's an admissions error in my favor.

RML

OP, then stick with CMU as it looks like you really like CMU very much. It's not a bad alternative to Berkeley. NYU is also good, as well as Michigan and Northwestern. I'm not sure what your chances are at these schools. And if you can, try to visit Rice in Texas. Just visit first before you even make a slight decision on attending there.

JWT86

Are you concerned your political views are too conservative for Austin?

BordomBeThyName

RML -
CMU has always been my favorite school, but I've already been rejected once and admissions rate is less for transfers, so I'm not very optimistic about my chances, which is why I'm looking for other schools. NYU looks good, I really can't say I'm a fan of Mich, but I'll look into Northwestern as well. Thanks!

JWT86 -
Hah, the city I grew up in legally has the motto "Where the 60's never died," both my parents drive hybrids, my sister is at UCSB for a Masters in Environmental Science, my favorite city is San Fransisco, I'm dating a Musical Theater major, my hometown nearly exploded at the whole Prop. 8 thing, and I make fractal art in my free time.

So, maybe.

xAAAx

wherever I go as an engineering major next year(as a freshman) I've definitely given a new definition to the word unconventional