Grcxx3

<<4% , U TEXAS>>

I can't speak for the other schools, but taking into consideration the 96% in-state statistic for UT Austin ....it DEFINITELY falls into my category of "may be in-state for tuition, may have graduated from a TX high school (might even have been in the top 10%), but not necessarily FROM Texas."

Not so true of Texas A&M, which - while an excellent school - has much more of a Texas flavor and also has a very "love it or hate it" feeling among students. DS is in the "hate it" category and won't even consider it! Granted - it's 90 minutes away and I would prefer him go OOS, but I thought he should at least consider it!!

mom2collegekids

>>>

It could have a lot to do with the OP question - if a student is looking for a large OOS student population because of a desire to have a campus full of students from a variety of places, backgrounds, beliefs etc.

All mom2collegekids and I are staying is that the stated OOS % does not necessarily fully represent the # of kids that are not "local."

<<<<<

>>>>>>>>
UT Austin ....it DEFINITELY falls into my category of "may be in-state for tuition, may have graduated from a TX high school (might even have been in the top 10%), but not necessarily FROM Texas."
<<<<<<<<<

Exactly!

Many people want to know if their OOS kid will feel "weird" attending "such and such" school, so many look to the OOS numbers.

My point was that looking at how many students are "in-state" does not always tell the whole story. I'm always being asked, "Will my NE (or west coast) kid feel strange at the University of Alabama"? The answer is no. And Tuscaloosa feels like any other city. It has the major chain restaurants, stores, etc, that you see in many American cities these days - Barnes and Noble, AnnTaylor, New York & Co, Target, Panera Bread, TGIFridays, Chili's, Best Buy, Cold Stone, 5 Guys, etc. Of course, it has some regional favorites, too (like any town does).

Before we visited UAlabama, we wondered if our Catholic kids would be an exception there. When we saw the big Catholic church across the street from campus, we knew the answer. LOL There are many various Christian churches around the campus, as well as a Hillel for Jewish students (a temple is being built on campus next to the Hillel), and worship places for Hindus and Muslims are near campus, too. Of course, a non-believer will also feel welcome at UAlabama.


I know that if I were to visit many state schools (especially regional publics), most of the kids would likely be "born and bred" locals. However, in a state like Alabama, which has the second largest research park in the nation (Cummings Research Park), there are going to be thousands and thousands of highly educated transplants (from all over this country) whose kids are now attending The University of Alabama. Therefore, the "in-state" numbers are not going to reflect the diversity of regional cultures that is there.

I didn't intend for this post to be this long, but my earlier attempt was misunderstood. I don't think the point of this thread was about "tuition" and how many pay in-state.

Keilexandra

^I know nothing about Bama and so I'm not challenging your assertion, merely this: how do you know that "a non-believer will also feel welcome at UAlabama"? For example, does the chapel sponsor atheist/agnostic student groups? What percentage of students identify as atheist/agnostic? (Not counting non-practicing Christians, who will "fit in" to a predominantly religious environment much more easily.) I think a non-believer thinking about going to the Bible Belt has a legitimate concern about not feeling "left out" religiously.

blaw

I never thought that the OOS numbers are sooooo looooow
for Cal and Texas.

I wonder if Hawkette's OOS numbers include the internationals as well.

mom2collegekids

Keil's quote
>>>>
^I know nothing about Bama and so I'm not challenging your assertion, merely this: how do you know that "a non-believer will also feel welcome at UAlabama"? For example, does the chapel sponsor atheist/agnostic student groups? What percentage of students identify as atheist/agnostic? (Not counting non-practicing Christians, who will "fit in" to a predominantly religious environment much more easily.) I think a non-believer thinking about going to the Bible Belt has a legitimate concern about not feeling "left out" religiously.
<<<
Keil,

What chapel are you asking about? The school doesn't have a chapel...it's a public school. It's not a Christian school.

I don't know what you mean by saying "non-believer thinking about going to the Bible Belt has a legitimate concern about not feeling "left out" religiously. "

When would such a person feel "left out"? It's a public school. Do you feel "left out" at your public high school? If so, when?

How would anyone know how many identify themselves as atheists? There isn't any such head-counting involved...Again, it's a public school. Does your public high school keep such a count??? No.

Now, if you're offended if you see a Christmas tree or Menorah up during December, then I don't know what to tell you.

pierre0913

mom2collegekids, at schools in the south a large majority of the students join a religious organization such as FCA or Campus Crusade for Christ, sometimes the large amount of students who join these groups can make the group feel as dominant as greek life to people who are not involved in these religious groups. Believe me, it's not a matter of feeling "left out", it's a matter of feeling like everyone is a part of it but you don't want to do it because that's not what you believe.

Also, some schools (including public schools) do have all-faiths chapels.

mom2collegekids

>>>>
mom2collegekids, at schools in the south a large majority of the students join a religious organization such as FCA or Campus Crusade for Christ, sometimes the large amount of students who join these groups can make the group feel as dominant as greek life to people who are not involved in these religious groups. Believe me, it's not a matter of feeling "left out", it's a matter of feeling like everyone is a part of it but you don't want to do it because that's not what you believe.

Also, some schools (including public schools) do have all-faiths chapels.
<<<<<<<

Campus Crusade is not big at UA. I just went to the Alabama Campus Crusade Facebook page and it only has about 160 members - that wouldn't even intimidate at a small school, much less a large school. I also doubt my son has even heard of CC at UA, much less ever been "preached to."

Alabama is not "religious" feeling school at all. Again, since many Bama kids have roots from everywhere, their beliefs are too wide for one group to intimidate the others. Of course there are kids who have beliefs and go to their varous worship places on weekends, but what campus doesn't have that?

Alabama does not have a "campus all-faith chapel".

This is DS1's 3rd year at UA. He has 2 or 3 agnostic/atheist friends. None of them have complained about being harassed or anything. No one says anything about the issue to them.

Alabama is not some bible-thumping school. However, when I was at UCI, there were bible-thumpers on campus screaming out all kinds of nutty things...so I guess it would be safe to say that the UC schools are suspect (jk)

BTW...Pierre....Maybe at SOME schools in the south a majority join CC or similarly strident groups...but not all of them...(I doubt CC is that popular at UAHuntsville or UABirmingham, either.)

Grcxx3

<<I never thought that the OOS numbers are sooooo looooow
for Cal and Texas.

I wonder if Hawkette's OOS numbers include the internationals as well. >>

The OOS numbers in TX (can't speak for CA) are primarily because of the top 10% rule. The will be modified to some degree (top 8%) starting with the class of 2011, but it still won't make a huge change. According to the 2008 student profile at UT Austin - about 4% were OOS, 3% were international, leaving 93% in-state students. Again, that just means that 93% of the kids graduated from TX high schools.


<<...at schools in the south a large majority of the students join a religious organization such as FCA or Campus Crusade for Christ...>>

Yes - you are probably more likely to see it in the SE/Bible Belt area. It's definitely something to consider if you are going to feel left out or offended or bothered by such groups. And that is why campus visits are critical. But for someone who is comfortable with their beliefs/non-beliefs, I don't see it being a problem. Same "concern" goes for conservative/southern/non-religious kids (that would be my 2 sons) going to schools in very liberal areas. Bottom line - you have to be confident in your beliefs (or lack thereof) and knowledgebale about what you're getting into.

Also - this is EXACTLY why understanding what the in-state/OOS % really means at a school is important. The major public schools in states like AL or TX are likely to have a much more diverse group because AL and TX have large industries (oil, technology, aerospace) that bring in people from all over the US and the world. That just isn't the case in other states.

<<Also, some schools (including public schools) do have all-faiths chapels. >>

But attending chapel isn't required - it's an option. I think that what mom2collegekids' point.

mom2collegekids

>>>
The major public schools in states like AL or TX are likely to have a much more diverse group because AL and TX have large industries (oil, technology, aerospace) that bring in people from all over the US and the world. That just isn't the case in other states.
<<<

Exactly, when I was growing up in Orange County, CA, there weren't a lot of California native parents amongst my peers. Most had parents who came to Cali from all over the US seeking the jobs in the aerospace industries that dominated there in the 60's. The same has been happening in states like Alabama and Texas for the last 2 decades.

pierre0913

mom2collegekids, I'm definitely not speaking for all schools but I'm just talking from my own personal experience. At Clemson, FCA is just as dominating as greek life and everyone joins it. I know Auburn has the largest Campus Crusade for Christ chapter in the country.

Keilexandra

As I said, I know nothing about Bama's specific religious climate; but I do agree with pierre's generalization about religious atmospheres at some southern public universities. (And, from my friends living in the South, at some public high schools as well.) And public schools do run surveys of students' religious self-identifications.

In general, "bible-thumpers" do not correlate at all with a school's religious leanings. The most insidious religious atmosphere for a non-believer is where almost everyone is an extremely nice, hospitable, lifelong Christian who asks you by way of introduction what church you attend.

And of course, some atheists/agnostics will be perfectly happy at Bama. But it is something to think about if you plan to go South.

Grcxx3

<<But it is something to think about if you plan to go South. >>

It's something to think about no matter where you're from or where you're thinking of going.

If an agnostic/atheist is going to be uncomfortable on a campus where there are a lot of religious students - then stay away. If not, not big deal.

Similarly, if you're conservative (religious or not) you might want to think hard before going to one of the very liberal-type campuses.

This is where "fit" - not just whether you have the grades/scores to get in - comes into play in the college search process.

bclintonk

Yes, but there's diversity and then there's diversity. State lines don't necessarily tell the tale. I wonder how many of UDel's OOS students come from within a 60-mile radius, which would take in nearby Philadelphia and its Pennsylvania and southern NJ suburbs, as well as Baltimore and its suburbs? How diverse is that? Essentially these groups would all share a Mid-Atlantic urban/suburban background, i.e., possibly embrace less diversity than you'd find within a single large, geographically and demographically diverse state.

Similarly, around half of Wisconsin's OOS students come from neighboring Minnesota, because Minnesotans are automatically entitled to in-state tuition rates under the two states' reciprocity agreement. Demographically the two states are quite similar. Traditionally the cultural divide among Wisconsin students is between the "Coasters" (people from Coastal states) and the " 'Sconnies" (Wisconsinites), but the ubiquitous Minnesotans are lumped in with the 'Sconnies because they're so similar. Given all that, Wisconsin's OOS figure might misleadingly imply a higher level of geographic and demographic diversity than actually exists.

midatlmom

mom2collegekids

While I appreciate your enthusiasm for the University of Alabama, I am somewhat doubtful that all Jewish students will be completely comfortable at the school. According to Hillel, Alabama has an undergraduate population of 24,000 and 450 of those students are Jewish--less than 2%. Here's the link University of Alabama

While I'm not suggesting that there is any discrimination and I have no doubt that the Hillel building is a nice facility, many Jewish students will want a school with a slightly higher percentage of Jewish undergraduates.

Grcxx3

This is also true of the schools in states surrounding TX - lots go to Okla State, OU, LSU, etc. That's where it's useful when schools have maps that give an idea the % of students coming from different regions.