tk21769

It is very difficult, but not impossible. Chicago has risen 10 positions within the top 15 in the last 6 years.

2006 ... 15th
2007 ... tied for 9th
2008 ... tied for 9th
2009 ... tied for 8th
2010 ... tied for 8th
2011 ... tied for 9th
2012 ... tied for 5th

How has this happened?
Chicago increased undergraduate enrollment from ~3400 in 1992 to ~5100 today, even while:

* increasing 6-year graduation rates, from 81% in 1992 to 92% in 2010 (Ohio State: 78% in 2010)
* increasing freshmen retention rates, from 87% in 1992 to 98% in 2010 (Ohio State: 93% in 2010)
* reducing the admission rate, from 71% in 1992 to ~13% in 2012 (Ohio State: 68% in 2010)
* increasing the percentage of classes with under 20 students, from 59% in 2005 to 78% in 2011 (Ohio State: 31.5% in 2010)
* reducing the percentage of classes with 50 or more students, from 6% in 2005 to 4% in 2011, lowest among the top 20 national universities (Ohio State: 20.2% in 2010)
* increasing its endowment from $3.24 billion in 2002 to $6.58 billion in 2011, for ~15,000 students (Ohio State: $2.12 billion in 2011, for ~57,000 students at Columbus)
* improving its USNWR "financial resources" rank, from 19th in 2005 to 8th in 2011
* improving its USNWR "faculty resources" rank, from 12th in 2005 to 2nd in 2011
* increasing applications from 4100 in 1992 to over 19000 in 2010

(http://web.mit.edu/ir/rankings/USNew..._1997-2011.pdf)

Sparkeye7

@tk21769,

* increasing 6-year graduation rates, from 81% in 1992 to 92% in 2010 (Ohio State: 78% in 2010)

TOSU 2011 6-year Graduation Rate: 80%; 82% 2012
TOSU 2011 4-year Graduation Rate: 60%; 68% 2012

* increasing freshmen retention rates, from 87% in 1992 to 98% in 2010 (Ohio State: 93% in 2010)

TOSU 2011 Freshmen Retention Rate: 94%; 95% 2012

* reducing the admission rate, from 71% in 1992 to ~13% in 2012 (Ohio State: 68% in 2010)

TOSU 2011 Admission Rate: 55%; 50% 2012; Comm App 2013

* increasing the percentage of classes with under 20 students, from 59% in 2005 to 78% in 2011 (Ohio State: 31.5% in 2010)

300 Additional faculties to be hired by 2020.

* reducing the percentage of classes with 50 or more students, from 6% in 2005 to 4% in 2011, lowest among the top 20 national universities (Ohio State: 20.2% in 2010)

Same as above.

* increasing its endowment from $3.24 billion in 2002 to $6.58 billion in 2011, for ~15,000 students (Ohio State: $2.12 billion in 2011, for ~57,000 students at Columbus)

TOSU with 4.1 billion Cash Flow in addition to $1.4 billion gift to its endowment and the up coming official $2.5 billion fundraising campaign this fall. Plus, the $1 billion Wexner Medical Center research endowment by 2016.

* improving its USNWR "financial resources" rank, from 19th in 2005 to 8th in 2011

TOSU recently increased financial aid by $50 million.

* improving its USNWR "faculty resources" rank, from 12th in 2005 to 2nd in 2011

TOSU's faculty compensation is now tied with Michigan.

* increasing applications from 4100 in 1992 to over 19000 in 2010

Year / Acceptance Rate / # of Applicants / 50% ACT

2009 72% 20,000, 25-29
2010 68% 25,000, 26-30
2011 55% 30,000, 26-31
2012 50% 33,000, 27-31 (Approximation, pending on official CDS release)
2013 45% 40,000 (Common App), including 10% enrollment increase. ACT 28-32 Prediction
2014 42% 44,000 (2nd year Common App with 10% applicant increase), ACT 28-33 Prediction
2015 40% 47,000 (3rd year Common App with 7% applicant increase), ACT 29-33 Prediction
2016 38% 50,000; ACT 30-33 Prediction
*Also by 2016 - "$1-Billion Dormitory Project Completion" which includes South Campus, North Campus & West Campus Towers. (All Sophomores are required to live in the dorms)
2017-2018 35% 55,000; ACT 30-34 Prediction
2019-2020 32% 60,000; ACT 31-34 Prediction
2020-2025 28% 70,000; ACT 31-35 Prediction

Well, with all these academic advancements, I ask not Top-15, but expect tOSU to be ranked between #20 to #30 on USNWR by 2020. Go Bucks!

Sparkeye7

So, as I had predicted, the integration between Battelle and its next door neighbor - tOSU has begun.. (Thanks to our active billionaire alum / board chair - Mr. Wexner who recently recruited the CEO of Battelle to sit on the OSU board of trustees. )

Battelle Memorial Institute, R&D organization that manages SEVEN large U.S. national laboratories headquartered in Columbus, Ohio.

In addition to operating three of its own research facilities, as of 2010, Battelle manages or co-manages on behalf of the United States Department of Energy the following national laboratories:

* Brookhaven National Laboratory
* Idaho National Laboratory
* National Renewable Energy Laboratory
* Oak Ridge National Laboratory
* Pacific Northwest National Laboratory
* Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
* National Biodefense Analysis and Countermeasures Center

Battelle provides funds for a public policy research center at The Ohio State University to focus on scholarly questions associated with science and technology policy. The Battelle Center for Science and Technology Policy began official operation in July 2011.

Go Bucks!!

phantasmagoric

tk21769, re: Chicago's rise, I wasn't talking so much of US News rank changes (which aren't real changes; they're revenue-driving changes), but rather of financial resources as measured by endowment. Chicago went from being in the top 15 to being #12, so it would fall under the small handful of universities that have bumped past a couple of others, as I outlined before. As many university leaders have indicated, universities change at glacial speeds, so any supposed rise in USNWR ranks in the last 5 years is inconsequential.

You're right that it's not impossible to continue a legitimate rise once you hit the top 25. It is very hard though. If you look at the endowments in 1998 vs. 2011, most schools are stalled in the same bracket they were at 13 years ago. Endowments are of course only a small piece of the operating budgets, and only a small handful are supported largely by their endowments. And while year-to-year changes in USNWR aren't important, when averaged over the years, it is a generally accurate representation of the realistic position of a university relative to its peers (in terms of financial resources, which ultimately decide most aspects of a university). In that vein, there are plenty of examples where universities on the rise, in financial resources, have run out of gas within a certain range. Vanderbilt, Emory, WUStL, and the like are stalled in the top 15-20. Northwestern and JHU are stalled in the top 10-15. Schools like Duke and Penn are stalled in the top 6-10. Neither has been able to crack the top 5 (not in USNWR of course). Stanford is one of the few that has managed to break into that group, but that's a rather freak occurrence in academia, and I think most would agree Stanford is odd, given that it's the youngest of the top 20 and rose with a once-in-a-blue-moon phenomenon, Silicon Valley.

In short, I still think that continuing a legitimate rise in ranks (where USNWR is not included as 'legitimate') past the top 20 or 25 is nearly impossible: diminishing returns, competitor advantages, and the slow push-and-pull of market cycles make it so. One way this might change is with intervention from the government, i.e. legislating on endowments, which is entirely possible. The other way is with the rise of something like Silicon Valley, which nobody saw coming; presumably we wouldn't see such a phenomenon coming in the future.

Davidabb84

Appalachian State anyone? It's a regional college so of course nobody has heard of it, but:

Applicants: WAY UP
Acceptance Rate: Up, but that's because the campus has been expanding programs, Admissions standards: Average GPA, SAT, and Class Rank are up.
Invited to NC Research Campus, the only one that isn't a doctoral research school.
Growth has allowed for significant construction, renovation, and campus beautification
One of the best college radio station in the country
Boone consistently recognized as one of the best college towns.

App used to be just a local school that hardly received notice any further than the western half of the state. Now it has significant state-wide and even regional appeal.

barrons

College rankings inflation: Are you overpaying for prestige? - Education - AEI

Sparkeye7

^^ hmm.. interesting read!! Perhaps it's time for Ohio State & Wisconsin to consider raising their OOS tuition to the level of Cal & Michigan in order to attract more applications..

Commentary: Ohio State students deserve an explanation for tuition increase - Campus - The Lantern - Ohio State University

rjkofnovi

"App used to be just a local school that hardly received notice any further than the western half of the state. Now it has significant state-wide and even regional appeal."

I think ASU owes a debt of gratitude to The University of Michigan for putting it on the map. Ugh. ;-)

rjkofnovi

"Perhaps it's time for Ohio State & Wisconsin to consider raising their OOS tuition to the level of Cal & Michigan in order to attract more applications.."

Good luck with that at OSU. LOL

Sparkeye7

Wait..! I thought tOSU is already receiving roughly the same amount of applications compared to Michigan prior to joining Comm App. The fact that the overall population in the State of Ohio is not much more than that of Michigan. How is this even possible? I thought Michigan is all that and more, no?

*TOSU however, regularly enrolls roughly 6800 freshman class vs around 6500 of Michigan.

http://www.michigandaily.com/news/u-...est-class-ever

Sparkeye7

I stand corrected! Michigan actually had around 31,500 total applicants prior to Comm App.

vs Ohio State's 33,000 prior to Comm App. 50% ACT score is similar at 27-31 for both school prior to Comm App; however, Michigan certainly had higher Top 10% high school grads.

Also, Michigan's freshman class is now smaller - around 6200 and the school has about 43,000 students (13th largest public) vs 57,000 that of Ohio State (3rd largest) based on my reading.

In conclusion: I now see that there is absolutely no need for tOSU to jack-up the OOS tuition based on the number of applicants. Prospective students these days simply recognize the values, and certainly the upswing momentum in terms of academic improvements at Ohio State.

Sparkeye7

@phantasmagoric, Welcome to America's next generation Silicon Valley!!

Silicon Valley Can No Longer Save California -- Or The U.S. - Forbes

*As of today, Battelle's budget exceeds $5 billion - thanks to the strategic alliance with its neighbor Ohio State.

Source: In Pictures: Top 10 Up-And-Coming Tech Cities - Forbes.com

phantasmagoric

Sparkeye7, every place thinks they're the "next Silicon Valley." You frequently hear this about Silicon Alley in NYC, about the Research Triangle in NC, about Silicon Fen in England, about Silicon Wadi in Israel, etc. The reality is that none of them is likely to become the next SV. All of these areas pale in comparison to SV in a number of measures, which hasn't significantly changed over the many years: the number of tech companies, the concentration of tech jobs, the market value of the companies, venture capital investments, etc. For example, NYC has more tech jobs than SV, but with far less concentration. SV accounts for a large portion of the VC money invested in the US (at least 1/3). The Midwest, including Columbus, doesn't even come close:

https://www.pwcmoneytree.com/MTPubli...e%20Report.pdf

Since you mention Battelle, I'd add that Battelle is one of the managers of the Lawrence Livermore National Lab (in the SF Bay Area), which has a budget of $1.5 billion. It doesn't make sense to include all of Battelle's budget with TOSU, since Battelle also works around the country. The SF Bay Area has a ridiculous amount of R&D, probably the most of any area in the world: between the research powerhouses (Stanford, Berkeley, UCSF) and the R&D departments of tech companies (IBM, MSFT, Google, etc.), large and small, there really isn't any comparable area.

The Forbes list seems to focus on whether there's a research-intensive institute/lab nearby, but doesn't seem to grasp the fact that it takes more than a lab in basic research. It requires students who will graduate and spin out the technologies (faculty can do this, but they're in far fewer numbers). More than anything, it needs VC money nearby, since VCs like to be near the companies they invest in.

The Forbes article you link to is disingenuous - it compares tech jobs to the # in 1999, at the height of the tech bubble, which anyone knows would lead to inflated numbers of jobs. California lost more high-tech jobs than any other state because California has the most high-tech jobs. The article is trying to make a case for a declining tech scene that isn't happening - all because of the death of Steve Jobs.

What makes SV strong is the network effect, which is self-perpetuating and which is difficult to replicate. As I said before, the next big phenomenon isn't going to be a copy of SV somewhere else. It's going to be a phenomenon we didn't see coming. Some areas, like San Diego, have created a more specific industry, e.g. biotech. But what could catapult a school into the top 5 will have to be big and it will have to be new.

Sparkeye7

@phantasmagoric, Mostly agreed.

However, even with only 1/5th of Battelle's budget (know that in addition to managing 7 national laboratories across the country, it also operates 3 local research labs) added onto Ohio State's roughly $5 billion operational budget, the result is overwhelming imho. Can anyone name me a few colleges in the country with over $6 billion annual budget? I know Michigan is also around $5 billion.

Furthermore, unlike SF, Chicago, LA or NYC with numerous schools located within its vicinity, over 90% of the resources in Columbus cater only "1 institution," which is Ohio State. Whereas Silicon Valley is consisted of a few dozens for-profit high tech companies in a not-so-well-defined-region, which stretches from Bay area all the way to San Jose. And I don't even know how many schools are included within these metros / boundaries. OTOH, Battelle is not-for-profit, and also heavily involved in STEM education, located just across the street (< 20 ft. wide - King Avenue) from tOSU campus. Hence, the overall level of the impact between Battelle and tOSU are direct and drastic in terms of academic collaborations and research capacities. Last but not the least, VC money or not, as world's largest private research organization, Battelle is currently pulling in over $5.4 billion "profit" annually, which has and will continue to benefit tOSU significantly imho.

P.S. The question of first chicken or the egg?

Well, Columbus might not be the next Silicon Valley, but it is certainly thriving in terms of its economic outlook based on all my readings. You've got to start somewhere, no? Back to where we were.. Recall SF was a mere small town with less than 500 population back in the early 1800s when the city of Chicago already had over 100,000 population during the same period. Without that 'little growth spark' (Gold Rush of 1817), there would probably not have been the intercontinental railway to SF, the Silicon Valley, or the upcoming High Speed Train from LA to SF (instead of Sacramento - the capital). After all, these multi-billion dollars public infrastructures were / are being built because of the needs from the growing population. Likewise, I intend to think that the collaboration of BMI and tOSU will create that 'little spark' needed in turning Columbus into another major high-city of America, thereby contributing in elevating Ohio State's academic prestige to perhaps that of Berkeley in the future.

rjkofnovi

"......................elevating Ohio State's academic prestige to perhaps that of Berkeley in the future"

I suppose If one can wait until the 23rd century anything is possible. ;-)