Denzera

yeah, there are rats on the subway tracks. they're generally not on the platform, although every now and then you'll see one. when it's very late at ngiht and you're trying to catch a subway home while drunk, playing a rousing game of "Count the Rat" can while away the time quite admirably

naboutboul

I beg to differ, it's not the rats that bother me, it's the freakin noise. NY's subways screeechhhh, a slow torturous screech, I wear earplugs to protect my hearing. well not earplugs but noise canceling headphones.

confidentialcoll

^guys cummon, the noise and rats work well together, think of it this way, when the trains are noiser they'll scare away more rats, and when there are rats everywhere a few of them are bound to get caught in the tracks ... better lubrication = less noise? . i, for one, think without the rats and noise equilibrium, there'd be no charm to the subway experience.

scifikayaker

i dont know WHAT you guys are talking about the metro in washington dc is like 100 times better. its cleaner and faster and centralized (a concept that just doesnt work in NYC cuz of its sprawling nature). In addition I have been to japan and the subways there are absolutely amazing. much better than over here.
dont get me wrong i love the NYC subways, i think they are part of the underground (pardon the pun) life of the city; but saying they are a) modern or b) the best one around is just plain wrong.

confidentialcoll

^please actually read the thread next time, it was pretty clear that being 'modern' wasn't a particular strength of the subway, also new york public transportation as a whole is one of the best in the world. i quite disliked DC metro when i went there, i didn't find it cleaner or faster. the nyc subway is comprehensive, 24x7 and quick, it also has the $2 anywhere to anywhere charge (helps poorer people who live further out not pay more). sure you aren't as pampered like the ones in tokyo, but subways don't need to be comfortable, take a cab if that's atop your list, the nyc subways serve what they set out to do well - cheaply transport huge, huge numbers of people from anywhere to anywhere as quickly as possible.

scifikayaker

oh, i read the post, i just disagreed with you. you are entitled to your own opinion though

Columbia2002

This is a good thing? I don't like that the subway pricing structure is a progressive tax scheme.

Cabs are filthy and generally have annoying/loud/smelly drivers. And depending on the time of day, it's far quicker to take the subway.

Tokyo and Hong Kong have subways that are set out to do exactly that. Those cities just to a better job at it than NYC.

confidentialcoll

^both tokyo and hong kong have newer subways, i don't know the tokyo subway system, but i know the HK one very well. Tokyo has much more room to work with, and HK while as space constrained as NYC, has significantly fewer people to carry. Adjusting for PPP, HK prices are 1.5-2 times the prices of new york, which warrants a cleaner better metro. taking hk trains rush hours is slightly worse than nyc trains rush hours.

"This is a good thing? I don't like that the subway pricing structure is a progressive tax scheme."

but the $2 doesn't reduce incentives for anything, except maybe gets people to hop into a cabs when in groups and travelling short distances.

Denzera

You can hardly call a flat $2 fare a "progressive tax scheme". that's stretching the definition past its breaking point.

You are not getting charged more because you make more money. you are getting charged the same amount no matter who you are or where you're going. If that isn't the definition of equitable I don't know what is.

There is nothing in the definition of "public service" that should force them to create an onerous system that charges differentially based on factors such as distance or timing. The fact that DC does that is, in my view, a waste of money in building the system and monitoring it, and a waste of time for all the commuters, not to mention a ludicrous inconvenience if you (say) lose your ticket en route, or if there's a big line somewhere. The fact that the NYC subway system chooses NOT to incrementally harm those who are not fortunate enough to live near the city center (incrementally over the charge that everyone pays) is hardly a sin.

Columbia2002

Denzera, you surely must agree that public transportation rates aren't determined solely on the basis of economic efficiency. Rather, the rates reflect social engineering and politicians' need to appease various constituencies. If the MTA tried to start charging higher rates for longer rides, you'd hear the usual class warfare crap getting thrown around nonstop.

The Asian subways are able to efficiently charge you based on your usage. DC's profitability is problematic because of their inefficient union contracts, not because of the fare structure.

mikesown

I'd say, reguardless of the economic impacts of the subway pricing, it's done the way it is for sheer simplicity. The MTA would face a nightmare if they had to keep track of where everyone got on and off. Imagine, they'd have to install new turnstiles(or at least swiping stations) for every subway station. Plus, it would be a pain for people who transfer multiple times in a short series(i.e. down east side to grand central, shuttle, and up to columbia would be 2 transfers). The NYC subway system is setup so that there are many ways to transfer, and accomplishing this plan would require a huge ammount of effort to build new turnstiles at each entrance to each individual subway. At times square, you'd need to add in 3 or 4 more SETS of turnstiles. This would run upwards of $100,000, if not millions of dollars for a single station alone. Is it doable? Possibly. Practical? Hell no. Not for NYC's subway system. It works well the way it is, and that's what matters.

Columbia2002

No, you only scan your card when you enter the system and leave the system. You don't scan your card when you transfer. When you exit, the system figures out that you transferred. Dude, this isn't that hard.