MakeBank24

Dretzerik is definantly a troll.

hellojan - nice Star Trek reference on location.

hellojan

I'm a nerd. It took me a long time to embrace that. Now, I wallow in it in a celebratory way. It's like I'm having a nerdy coming out of sorts.

collegeconfivy

One thing you mentioned is definitely true. The School of General Studies is a different undergraduate college than Columbia College. School of Engineering and Applied Science is the third undergraduate college under the umbrella of the university. You seem to have a lot of questions about the disparity between these colleges, perhaps you are a perspective student, so I will do my best to answer them.
-“Why are there scouts for Columbia GS going to every community college in and around NY?” Am I to take from this that students who spend time at a community college are unworthy of a Columbia education? In my classes at the CC there were many types of students from all over the world and all over the country. My English class alone had a student who had studied at St. Paul (the most prestigious prep school) on full scholarship for her entire high school career, a kid from Choate (another prep school), a student violinist from Julliard, a champion chess player, and a professional actor. Clearly these students weren’t lacking in intelligence, but what they did lack was money. Should Columbia only be of service to the rich? Is it wrong of GS to make these talented individuals unaware of their program?

-“Why is the scholarship "merit-based", and not your typical Ivy standard?” GS is a very small school and has a very unique program, perhaps because it caters to a minority population. Most students generally do not spend their early adulthood in the performing arts, professional sports, inventing computer programs, traveling the world, or serving in the military). FA is constantly an issue up for discussion and GS is constantly trying to increase funds for everyone.

-“Why is it that they discourage adults from applying as transfer students?” All students who have taken a break between school and college are encouraged to apply to GS. I don’t have a definitive answer for why this is, but there are many possible answers to this question. For one, consider the admissions process. Is it possible to compare the criteria of a student who has had a gap in their education to one who is coming straight from high school? They are very different scenarios. Each college seems to serve distinct types of students. The Columbia College student is coming straight from high school and is interested in humanities. The SEAS student is coming straight from high school and is interested in the sciences. The GS student has had at least a one year break in their education. Why do you have to assume that the answer lies in the school's lack of merit?

“Why is the diploma different? (And don't tell me it's not - do your research. You do not get a "Columbia College" Diploma - ergo - different - so deal with it).” The diploma for each of the undergraduate colleges is different. CC is in Latin, SEAS is in English, and GS is in English. Many of the graduate school diplomas are in English as well, does this mean that if you attend graduate school at Columbia, your degree is less prestigious than CC’s or any other college’s Latin diploma?
“Why do GS students feel the need to come here to defend the school and make its admission something like the 7th level of Dante's Inferno?” I haven’t seen this. The admissions process was a trying experience, but aren’t all application procedures difficult?

“Just for the record, Harvard's Extention school = joke. Read articles on how students of the Extension School were reprimended for labeling themselves "Harvard College Students".
Are you equating the HES with GS? The extension is a continuing ed school. Columbia, too, has a continuing ed school, but it is a different school than GS. In case you’re curious here’s their link, Columbia University : School of Continuing Education : Master Degree : Communications : Business : New York City NYC : Executive Education : Professional Development

Finally, I just don’t understand what you mean by the following comment:
“As far as I know, applying to an Ivy had merit in admission because it is selective and special. Ask me if I'd want to be part of something where every other person can get in - go ahead - ask me. The reason I say "ask me" is because getting the letter of admissions from a TRUE Ivy league means something. Now, ponder on the fact that every GS student receives said letter - along with half of all applicants for the program - and see how special you are, big-mighty Ivy Leaguer. I guess it's best said by the antagonist in "The Incredibles": "...and then I'll sell my inventions so everyone can be Super as well! Because when everyone is Super, heh, then nobody will be". Toodles!”

Attending Columbia GS means a lot, actually. I get depressed about the amount of debt I have obtained (even with a 50% scholarship), and it is difficult at times to be a minority on campus, but I am already starting to see this experience payoff off. I've had a lot of internship opportunities, and, thankfully, the people I interned for were very impressed with my status as a Columbia GS student. They were curious to know about my time as a professional artist. They even invited me to come speak to them when I graduate next year.
Finally, if GS lacks merit, as you seem to think, then why are its students going on to top graduate programs? I’ve pasted a couple of bios below ☺

Joel Beal, Valedictorian, Economics-Mathematics Major graduating summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa
Class of 2008 Valedictorian, Joel Beal was accepted to GS after two years as a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints missionary and a year at Brigham Young University. Originally from Woodinville, WA, Beal is one of the youngest people to ever reach the summit of Mount McKinley, North America’s highest peak.

After graduation from GS, he will enter a Ph.D. program in economics at Stanford University.

During his tenure at GS, Beal was a teaching assistant for Susan Elmes, lecturer in discipline, and research assistant for Bernard Salanie, professor, of the Columbia University Department of Economics. In 2007, Beal was an Undergraduate Research Fellow with the Columbia University Institute for Social and Economics Research and Policy. Outside of the classroom, Beal served as the Columbia University Chapter of Amnesty International co-president and a G.E.D. Tutor with Community Impact.


Aviel Marrache, Salutatorian, Economics Major graduating summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa
Class of 2008 Salutatorian, Aviel Marrache was accepted to GS after a corporate career during which he earned an Inner Circle Award at MCI, a partnership at C2 Media, and successfully founded three of his own companies. After graduation, he will study business as an M.B.A. student at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania.

During his tenure at GS, Marrache spent a significant amount of time on his own business endeavors, as well participating in the Columbia Economics Society.
Marrache was born in Morocco, grew-up in France, and emigrated to the U.S. when he was 15-years-old. He and his wife, Sherri, have a 2-year-old daughter, Chloé Belle, and are expecting their second child in September.

Dretzerik

Hey there, CollegeConfIvy. Here's what I have for your comments.

"...You seem to have a lot of questions about the disparity between these colleges,..."

Actually, no I don't - my questions were rhetorical.

"...Am I to take from this that students who spend time at a community college are unworthy of a Columbia education?..."

God, you're a drama queen. Let me explain the point: No Ivy League school goes to community colleges to recruit students. In fact, No Ivy Leagues goes to ANY school to recruit students - ever -; except for the so called Ivy League Columbia GS. Instead of going off on some ramble about worthyness and talent, and providing students with a chance to succeed, remember that you said so yourself that you are in debt for attending GS. Community College students make great suckers for shiny titles like "Hello there sir, madam, would you like to become an Ivy League Student? JOIN COLUMBIA GS!" Enough said? And PLEASE, spare me the part where you're something special or that community college students are talented - they are not. Everyone is the same, and the hardest-working cookie gets ahead, plain and simple.

"GS is a very small school and has a very unique program, perhaps because it caters to a minority population." You're right! It does cater to a minority population. With an exceptance rate of nearly 50%, guess what population that is? THE PAYING ONE! BINGO! So while you're hooked on GS's BS altruistic attempt to increase funding for you and other GS students, remember their goal: to goad in people who have cash, or that can take out enough loans to attend a pseudo-Ivy League. THAT'S why their aid is based on Merit and not need, and I guarantee you that even a stellar Valedictorian from a community college doesn't get a free ride.

"All students who have taken a break between school and college are encouraged to apply to GS". Yeah, thanks for the copy & paste there, sir Seaches-a-lot. The point behind my rhetorical question has for basis to show you blindfolded people that Columbia wants transfer students from community colleges and adults FAR AWAY from its main College. Noble of them isn't it? As for the lack of merit, the answer lies with acceptance: if one of two idiots can get into GS, why the HELL would I want to attend a school where 50% of the students are idiots? Remember, 47% acceptance rate - it's not like you're putting a camel through a needle.

"The diploma for each of the undergraduate colleges is different". Of course it's different, and that's the whole point. GS is NOT Columbia College, or a Science/Engineering branch of Columbia, nor the Law school or the Medical - GS is just continuing education, under the guise of "Ivy League" title! THAT'S IT! And you ask why is it less prestigious? LOL, I'll repeat myself: is there prestige in gaining entrance to a school where every other person is accepted? Besides, read this thread. Sometimes people assert how "employers won't know the difference between Columbia College and GS"... lol, in my opinion, who cares? What's the point of buying your way in into a pseudo-Ivy League if the whole point is to prove your worth by being admitted through restrict and demanding academics/extra-curricular activities, competing with other highly-qualified individuals?

"Are you equating the HES with GS?" Nope - just making sure that no one will use it as an example to tell me "HES" is also Ivy League - because it's not.

As per the part where you didn't understand, I can explain it easily. Unless you work hard and you're top 1% of your class, don't expect to attend a real Ivy League. If you do expect to attend an Ivy League, put in the work for it. As per GS, which is what I call a "pseudo" Ivy League, well, you pay the price (or half the price, in your case).

You mentioned how attending Columbia GS means a lot. What you meant to say is: "attending GS means a lot TO ME", because unlike Columbia College students, you probably don't have the grades nor the extracurricular activities to gain entrace into a real Ivy League school (or you would have applied for admissions into Columbia College instead, where they offer need-blind aid, right?) And uh, cry me a river on the minority issue - I'm minority as well.

As for students going to top graduate programs, I certainly hope that GS has at least a handful of bright people, or the whole system is doomed. Just so you know, every school (as mediocre as it may be) must have a valedictorian and salutatorian - GS is not special in that sense.

Sorry buddy, but the fact remains: GS is not Columbia College. Its admission criteria is roughly 50% (which is sad if we are calling it an Ivy League, since every other Ivy is less than 10%). And, it doesn't offer need-blind aid.

You are, in short, paying top money to earn the distinction of an Ivy Student when you have not earned it. The common argument against this assertion is the poor excuse of having the same classes as regular columbia college students.

If you're dissapointed or enraged regarding my post, then ask yourself why. You're not mad because you think I'm a troll - you're mad because you know I am right.

hellojan

Dretzerik, what school at Columbia do you belong to?

vanderbilt123

wow this thing is so annoying. i just wanted to change one word

vanderbilt123

seriously ***. ok, i tried, whatever. time for breakfast now

MakeBank24

and the troll returns to post on the only topic he has posted on. The poster is only here to anonymously make sure he can get on GS students' nerves.

I'm sure Dretzerik doesn't like the fact that GS students actually have a sort of easier chance in getting in Columbia University, acquiring the same degree, some GS students have full rides, saved a lot money going to a community college, access to the same resources (classes, career days, etc.), or possibly it's the GS-CC merger rumor. I bet we could make you mad Dretzerik by just listing on our resumes that we went to CC rather than GS (like some students at Barnard do).

jaykoblives

^
You know, I really hate to admit it, but trolls like Dretzerik really did factor into my decision to not attend Columbia GS. Finances weren't an issue. I'm a vet, so I would of had a free ride through the GI Bill/Yellow Ribbon program. It's the fact that a certain segment of Columbia harbors hostile feelings towards GS. Even if it is a very small minority, it is a huge turn off.

Had it been between Columbia GS and a state school, it would have still been worth it, but luckily I had other options. And, honestly, being one of the 15 people selected for transfer to Amherst College this year would have won out regardless. Still, it's sad that I even had to weigh the fact that some of my "peers" ("peers" being in quotes because even asserting my sense of equality with Columbia College students might offend some people) harbor feelings of superiority towards me just because I'm a non-traditional student who got into Columbia through a "backdoor".

Just my two cents.

ABigLoadofLaw

I'm about to graduate from Columbia CC...used to be in SEAS - Computer Sci...

And I can tell you one thing: Some of the programming and tough math courses? The class average on midterms were 54% (at least for our professor). The professor would send out emails detailing the midterm statistics: Most people in the class fell within 50%-65% out of 100. There were ALWAYS 3 outliers in the 90s...and those were GS students. They were in their late 20s and had worked as senior technology consultants for some big companies and they are quick as hell. One of them got a 100% on a midterm where the median grade was a 56.

Don't underestimate them! There were tons of GS students in my engineering classes who continuously ruined the curve for the rest of us SEAS kids.

ForumObserver

Dretzerik - It's great to see you passionate about something. I enjoy your driven personality, it's a relief in a world with complacent minds. However, it's unfortunate that you are using your energy towards worthless endeavors. What is the goal of posting, what clearly seems, a lengthy, time-consuming post about some obscure school that I'm fairly sure you are not a student at? You should do something that actually means something. Anything - it doesn't matter - just stop wasting your time here and do something else. Robbing a bank or starting a revolution is about seven steps up from posting flame wars on the internet.

canadianemigre

I think the main disagreement comes from the fact that Dretzerik sees the "distinction of being an Ivy League student" solely through the accomplishment of the admissions letter, and not through what a person accomplishes through classes at the school.....if people come out of the exact same classes with equal GPAs to CC students, I think it is very fair to say that person received an Ivy League education

and while I will agree that GS is Columbia's cash cow and that probably several people get in for the cash and not because they belong at Columbia, that degrades the experience of CC/GS/SEAS/Barnard as a whole (because they are all in the same classroom), not just GS....and it doesn't negate the fact that several people accepted to GS would be accepted through CC if that admissions process were designed to evaluate real world extracurriculars and accomplishments and not solely those accomplished in the simulation exercise called high school

I have nothing to do with GS, precisely because of the financial aspect, ...but this guy's attitude is so obviously based on his own insecurity....those attending or accepted to GS shouldn't bat an eyelash

ivyfaster

Dretzerik, it seems that if you have indeed been accepted to an Ivy League school that you're doing a great deal to tarnish and sully any modicum of prestige or respectability that comes from acceptance. Your complete inability to make an argument without atrociously obtuse fallacy and your complete lack of grace are more of an embarrassment to your 'value' than any acceptance could demonstrate.

You show a pitiful lack of understanding of what self-selection means statistically and attempt to create some sort of analogy as useless as a tissue paper trampoline. The number of people who apply for CC who have absolutely no chance whatsoever of being accepted due to extremely lackluster performance and aptitude scores is very high. At the GS level it's more likely to be adults who have some kind of realistic grip on what their capabilities are. Therefore, the group is self-selecting in the sense that those who are capable of performing are more likely to apply. You can't go backwards for the statistic without some basis, there are no grounds to say something like "there are 70 women and 30 men in the room beyond this door, that means that there's a 70% chance you're a woman if you walk inside."

Your attempt to disagree with the assessment that a GS degree is a real Columbia degree because there are other degrees from Columbia than CC simply ended up being entirely circular. If you had made a singular argument, it would have been begging the question, but since you haven't, it was just babbling and drooling in circles like a concussed puppy. If you had any familiarity at all with how universities around the world worked they are almost all composed around colleges that are run in a separate manner. Someone studying theology at Duke Divinity is going to be a graduate of Duke University just like an engineering student who graduates from Duke Trinity. In the case of Oxford and Cambridge, the number of colleges is actually a bit daunting and changes on a regular basis.

Since your argument is that going to an Ivy League is completely the exclusivity and validation one gets from accepted to the school, I'm assuming you wouldn't actually waste your time GOING to one. It would seem, by your philosophy, that the ideal is to just get an acceptance letter, frame it and then attend a school of possibly lesser reputation with the best and most immediate ROI. Ultimately, what is revealed here is that, by attempting to mock and troll, you're assuming the role of a child bully, unwittingly exposing your own fragile ego and need for validation. So sure, it's easier to get into GS than CC, and what the heck, maybe GS students suck and drag the others down. However, even if that were true, that'd be a *GOOD* reason to be a GS student (and a reason not to go to CC) as you gain the advantage of having CC classmates who can challenge you and drive you to do better.

Finally, it's important to point out that academics can't define a person wholly, and what you've written here has done more to define you as a negative effect on society than one of benefit.

cujoe169

that's really unfortunate, since for the most part, both seas and college students respect the GS students. To be honest, the only ill will we might harbor towards them is because they always ruin the average/scaling for tests...

ivyfaster

I see it as being similar to when I've gone to countries where they "dislike Americans" and have made friends anyway and had people say "well, except you!" In most cases, individual interaction has more consequence than the group you're stereotyped with.