Columbia College vs. School of General Studies - Page 44

ivyfaster · 06-08-2009, 07:48 PM

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^I think this GPA issue has been insinuated and discussed countless times on this board. A few reasons that I can remember are:

Has been "insinuated?" What the heck are you implying by that word choice?? Are you just clumsy with english?

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-the premed program at GS is a GPA booster

Sure, but aren't premed students still GS? How does that make anything wrong?

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-many GS students are older and more mature, so they tend not to party like freshmen

Not even sure how this matters, the point is, they're doing better in school. There are people who don't get in to CC because they partied too hard in HS.

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-GS has such a small sample size that it cannot be compared to the larger schools CC and SEAS

This makes no sense whatsoever. A sample is used to represent a larger group when it is not possible to obtain data for the full group. The cumulative GPA of GS represents exactly that. It's not symbolic or a sample of a larger group. If you have a class of 200 students that average out to a 3.7 and a class of 1000 students that average out to a 3.5 then you can say the 200 students have a higher average GPA. It doesn't matter that there are only 200 of them, because that is the entire group you're analyzing.

If you managed to get into CC with such a poor understanding of statistical analysis, *that* shames me far more than people who get into GS.

Epaminondas · 06-09-2009, 04:09 PM

First of all, let me say that I have nothing against GS. I think it's great that it provides top education to those deemed "nontraditional." So you really need to check your nerves and stop being so sensitive or touchy on this topic. It only reveals certain insecurities.

The reason I made that post regarding GPA is because it's often been used as a weapon of defense by GS students. But, as with many issues, the situation has been simplified into something black-and-white and two-dimensional. So I simply wanted to provide a few reasons to back up why it is that GS students have the highest cumulative GPA (I sincerely laud their achievements; that post was not made to besmirch their hard work). That way, I can make this situation more realistic for those not too familiar with the CC-GS arrangement.

"Has been "insinuated?" What the heck are you implying by that word choice?? Are you just clumsy with english?"
I may be clumsy with English; it's not my first language. By "insinuated" I mean "implied." I recall certain posts where this GPA disparity has been hinted at, hence this word choice. Literacy is an important life skill. Learn it. Besides, the overarching purpose of College Confidential is not for posters to argue about semantics.

"the premed program at GS is a GPA booster"
This is indeed an important reason. From what I read, the proportion of premed students at GS is higher than that at CC (or SEAS), due to that program. And it has been shown that the program is generous with marks. So the high number of people in the premed program would certainly boost the overall GPA. Whereas CC students take a plethora of different courses and career paths, some of which are astringent, some easy. Can you mock someone's low GPA just because he takes a heavy courseload and his major is niggardly with marks? No, the rigor must be taken into account.
(Disclaimer: I am pulling this out of memory based on stuff I read months ago. So I apologize in advance if any part, or all, of this is wrong.)

About this second point, again, it's just to give a reason why GS students are doing well. It's to concretize and place this "higher GPA" phenomenon into perspective.

"If you managed to get into CC with such a poor understanding of statistical analysis, *that* shames me far more than people who get into GS"

I don't want to get into the nuts-and-bolts of the sample size. But let me say this: I am an eighteen-year-old. By your vehement and incoherent defense of GS, I assume you are either a prospective or a true student of GS, which would mean that you are at least in your twenties. So why do you expect me to understand the workings of statistical analysis? I'm pretty sure that I don't want to go into any field related to statistics, so your censure is uncalled for.
Plus, if you know how to read, I am simply recounting reasons that other more seasoned posters such as C02 have made. I in no way am vouching for the validity of any of them. (And to be honest, the last reason seemed very fishy to me, so thanks for pointing out what I knew, and what countless others probably knew, but had the decency to refrain themselves.) Put your energy (if you have any) to useful endeavors and stop harassing some innocent young kid. Then maybe you can build a career for yourself, instead of going back to a school where most students are eons younger than you.

I apologize if my previous post has offended you, truly.

ivyfaster · 06-09-2009, 04:21 PM

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First of all, let me say that I have nothing against GS. I think it's great that it provides top education to those deemed "nontraditional."

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Then maybe you can build a career for yourself, instead of going back to a school where most students are eons younger than you.

Uh huh.

It's a year break minimum, it doesn't mean you have to be 50 to go to GS. Furthermore, plenty of people have careers already and return to university to pursue something that may not make as much money but interests them more. The hypocrisy of what you said in the scope of your previous post is remarkable.

You don't do yourself any favors by saying "Yeah I wrote something I figured was probably wrong and everyone probably else knew it was wrong and you were just rude and self-satisfying to point it out."

Now shush and pay attention to what's on your plate.

drek'thar · 06-10-2009, 08:21 AM

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I am an eighteen-year-old.

Nice one. I should start using my age as an excuse for being a jackass.

Epaminondas · 06-10-2009, 09:16 AM

^it's not an excuse. And like I said before, the purpose of my original thread was to clarify the issue, not to denigrate GS in any way.
Geez, you people need to learn to stop being so touchy. This is an internet forum after all.

ForumObserver · 06-10-2009, 02:21 PM

Epaminondas is correct

Schrader · 06-10-2009, 04:37 PM

If you feel gratified with what you're doing, enjoy where you're at, feel enriched by all that lies in your fruit basket, than no one can really find fault with that without revealing their own disaffection. If some find GS rewarding and fulfilling, than who really cares about petty woes and critiques. Tis a sad dude or dudette whom attaches too much meaning to superficial branding and not enough to those factors that contribute to the cultivation of a decent and substantive being, regardless of what it might say on his or her diploma.

Epaminondas · 06-10-2009, 04:43 PM

well said, schrader. And thank you forumObserver

exqusitely bored · 06-10-2009, 05:17 PM

Hi Everyone
Does every admitted student into GS receive a phone call to let them know that they have been accepted?

exqusitely bored · 06-10-2009, 05:19 PM

and I apparently spelled "exquisitely" wrong. geez how embarassing...

Epaminondas · 06-10-2009, 05:47 PM

^see, if you hadn't told us that, we would have assumed that the misspelling was intentional.

rcl268 · 06-10-2009, 06:11 PM

the phone call varies. I have friends that were accepted and did not receive phone calls. I did receive one. I really don't know what it means though.

Epaminondas · 06-10-2009, 06:17 PM

my guess is that it depends on location. If you like in NYC or its environs, then the phone call is very probable. I don't know if they are willing to pay for an international phone call to Malaysia, though.

ColumbiaInsider · 06-11-2009, 03:47 PM

I haven't noticed any particular pattern regarding the phone call for acceptance. I received several calls to take the admissions test, but I couldn't afford to take the time off work (never understood why a school for non-traditional students didn't offer evening hours for administrative things or admissions testing). I never took the admissions test, only the placement tests during orientation.

A friend from out of state received a call. I believe he also had a phone interview and several conversations with an admissions representative. Other GS students have mentioned such calls to me, but I never had any of the above.

At the time I was accepted, I lived in Manhattan. My acceptance was via FedEx, which I thought was odd, as the package would've reached me the next day by regular mail -- it didn't even need to cross the river!

chriscolumbianyc · 06-13-2009, 03:29 AM

Columbia does discriminate against GS students in terms of access to programs, financial aid, and facilities. Unlike comparable programs at Penn and Harvard, Columbia charges GS students the same tuition it charges for CC students. First class prices, second class students. Here are some specific examples of Columbia's bias against GS:

GS students do not have access to classes at Teachers College. All other undergraduate divisions at Columbia may take classes at T.C.

GS students do not have physical access to certain facilities which provide housing, yet students from other colleges do. Such buildings contain meeting rooms and study lounges which are systematically denied to GS students. Accordingly, GS students are often left out of important social and academic functions simply because they are denied entry.

GS students do not have the same access to financial aid. Specifically, when a CC student's family makes under a certain amount of money on a yearly basis, the CC student is given a need based scholarship which covers the entire cost of tuition. GS students whose financial compositions are the same as their CC counterparts, are denied full scholarships based on need.

GS students do not have access to the joint program at Juilliard School of Music, yet CC students do. Ironically, many GS students are accomplished and professional musicians, and would like to obtain a degree in music. However, they are systematically denied the opportunity by Columbia's administration. Conversely, CC students who qualify for this program are granted access to the joint program, and I have yet to meet one who has the talent that a GS musician has.

Hope this clears up some of the internal discrimination which is self evident to all of us GS students at Columbia.