Epaminondas

I don't. I don't want to get dizzy

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CrookedI said

<<It's not easier for URMs to get in considering the adverse conditions that they face from birth when compared to their more fortunate counterparts.>>

Sorry but I know several URMs in my community who had no adverse conditions whatsoever growing up. In fact some of them are in the wealthiest families, yet they will gladly take advantage of their URM status to gain admission into Ivy League schools. Every advantage helps. My guess is that the majority of URMs on any Ivy campus are from pretty well off families, no different than the rest of the student body.

The Ivies probably know they are admitting well off URMs who are really not at all "diverse". But they still do it because they see themselves as pursuing a social mission, and they want to brag about their URM stats.

Epaminondas

^True, that's why some people are pushing for socioeconomic diversity instead of ethnic diversity in admissions to top universities. They say that every year low income Asians and Whites are being displaced by wealthy URMs. The colleges do this because this will save them dollars (in terms of financial aid) while maintaining their "need-blind" status.

Schrader

Why does the term underrepresented minority necessarily have to have a strictly racial conotation? Cultural and personal backgrounds contribute to differences in personality and values, but race as far as I can tell is a very superficial and arbitrary distinction. Distinction on racial grounds, no matter how well intentioned, seems racist to the schrader.

jamescchen

It's all about White Guilt. But those afflicted by White Guilt (in charge of our government and educational institutions) make sure their kids aren't affected by the quotas. It's always someone else's kid that pays the price, not theirs.

hellojan

Has nobody taken a sociology course?

jaykoblives

^
I have. Which particular study applies to this conversation and which argument does it support?

hellojan

Race, being a social construct, evolves through time. During one period, the Census Bureau offered a Colored and a Black box on its forms. Now, the races aren't in any particular order, but white comes first.

The anecdotal evidence suggests that whites miss out because of these URM policies (whatever those URMs may be at that particular time). The truth is, one of the biggest advantages you can have during the admissions game is to be white. A handful of sociologists and statisticians have suggested, with empirical evidence not anecdotal, that if colleges and universities were to offer admission based strictly on class rank, GPA, and test scores (including SAT, subject tests, and APs), there'd be nearly 25% less white students at post-secondary institutions. The difference, they say, would be made up by South and Southeast Asian students.

CrookedI

James Chen isn't a white name. He's obviously of Asian descent--probably Chinese.

hellojan

I was just making a point about how race is a fluid concept. However it's interpreted, this country values whiteness above all.

FreeAtLast

took my GSAE last Friday to complete my application. I remember they said it could take until middle of July to finish all notifications.

Epaminondas

hellojan, in anthropology, race isn't a biological entity unto itself. Instead it is (as you said) a construct of the human mind.

The proper term is "cline" which I think means genetic diversity over geographic space. So in strict biological terms, people from Africa need to have a darker complexion because their skin reacts to sunlight and forms enough melanin to block out UV while letting enough in to make vitamin D.

Columbia_Insider

While I don't want to encourage a flame war, I do like to address false information when I see it, lest potential GS applicants be discouraged.

I'm not sure where that statistic comes from or even whether it matters. GS is obviously self-selected, not every non-traditional student would consider it. If the point was to insinuate that GS students are less qualified than CC/SEAS/BC, then why are these supposedly less qualified students earning better grades than their peers in the "real ivy" of CC? I had an OK GPA at Columbia, not honors by any means, but even the 2 Cs I earned put me ahead of most students in those classes. The percentage with grades lower than mine was higher for classes in which I earned an A or B.

I went to Columbia on a full ride. Tuition, fees and health insurance. About 35-50 GS students attend on a full ride in any given year, http://www.columbia.edu/cu/news/07/02/PALS.htmlPALS and http://www.columbia.edu/cu/gs/pressroom/080715.htmlSerrano Scholars. Some of the criteria for the scholarships are URM, first generation college student, ability to succeed at an Ivy, extreme need/inability to pay/borrow and willingness to perform community service. I'm unaware whether there are other full ride programs within GS.

Given its extremely limited funding, I would hope GS did not give, say, Julia Stiles, a full ride, when she clearly had the means to pay full freight. I'd hate to think GS would squander its scholarship funds like that, when so many people struggle or are forced to drop out for lack of sufficient aid.

Clearly, given my performance alongside my CC/BC/SEAS peers, the ability to earn good grades in high school isn't the only indicator of the ability to succeed at an Ivy. Many people I knew in GS either overcame their circumstances -- child abuse, cancer, homelessness, poverty, first generation college student, learning disabilities -- or first pursued acting/music/athletic/military careers and then decided to return to school. Usually, there was some life-changing event that put them on that road. So, on paper, they might not appear as qualified, but they are capable and ready to do Ivy-level work (in class, alongside CC students).

I was a little busy getting my head beaten in and guns waved in my face to study consistently in high school. I guess I should have accepted never challenging my intellect for my entire life because of the circumstances into which I was brought into the world?

Actually, when I tried to apply at Barnard (I wasn't interested in Columbia, initially), I was told the only undergraduate college at Columbia available to a woman of my age was GS. It is the only surviving Seven Sisters college without a non-traditional program. I can only guess it was regarded as redundant because GS had existed for decades.

Thanks, I did. Thoroughly. The highest concentration of brilliant, committed, engaged people I've met in my life were GS students, even within Columbia. SIPA would be next, then Barnard, then CC.

FreeAtLast

Columbia_Insider- thank you for your replies.

Ny80

Anybody got an interview yet??
Any acceptances yet??