crazyformints

Since Columbia University is more widely known around the world, I'm just wondering about its undergrad college. (This may be a dumb question, pardon my ignorance.)

From your experiences, current students, how do you feel Columbia's undergrad experience could compare to somewhere such as Dartmouth where undergrad is the main focus? Would you say that Columbia has a bad reputation for its undergrad program (such as Harvard, which has been criticized for focusing too much on the grad schools only)?

Any anedoctal or statistical evidence will be greatly appreciate!

Thanks.

slipper1234

I transferred out of Columbia to Dartmouth. I found Dartmouth to be more student friendly in terms of access to resources and less bureaucratic. Columbia feels incredible with the core (less than 20 people per class), but the big classes are WAY too big (300 people in General chemistry). Also the school is run like the government, everything has a rule and a department. Whether its Acis (computer services), the registrar, the deans, whatever it feels like you have to go through alot of hoops to get things done.

At Dartmouth the registrar's office feels almost like your grandmother's home compared to Columbia's Kent Hall. The president waves hello and you see him park his car on the way to class. Just a totally different feeling, its a place you feel comfortable walking into and talking to anyone.

At Dartmouth I also found much more available to me in terms of resources; grants (I got $10K for my thesis research), money for trips, etc. I know Columbia has alot of resources but you have to seek things out much more. Dartmouth hosts your email for life as an alum, Columbia you have to get it forwarded. Its just a small example of the difference.

Columbia is a great school and you have access to some of the best minds in the world but it is a big university.

ArPlaquette

Does this hold true for Columbia SEAS too?

nogardder

If you don't like Columbia for those reasons, I hope you're not planning on looking for a job in the corporate world after graduation.

Tami

^And you're justifying this how?

nogardder

From my experience working at large corporations. You can't get away from bureaucracy at large corporations.

Columbia2002

This is exactly right. The administration/bureaucracy at Columbia one of the worst things about the place. Much of it has a "the customer is always wrong" attitude. Funny you bring up the CU registrar, because the people who work there are among the nastiest, laziest, stupidest individuals I've ever met in my life.

It's the same bureaucracy.

You're a paying customer at Columbia -- you're paying the salary of the secretary in the dean's office or the clerk at the registrar and they ought to at least be polite and respectful to you, let alone try to be minimally helpful. And not wanting to deal with CU's bureaucracy at age 18 doesn't mean you're not fit for the corporate BS.

columbia2007

After working with the government I found it to be somewhat similar to the Columbia bureaucracy, but it's a stretch to equate them entirely. Compare Columbia to some universities in Europe with similar bureaucracies and campuses spread all over large cities (at Marmara University in Istanbul the registrar's office is downtown and each campus is in a different suburb...feel the love there!)...at least at Columbia, "running around to various offices" at most entails going from Kent to Lerner...usually.

If the academic experience is subpar in a 300 person lecture room for an intro class freshman year, those few who stick with majors in, say, Physics will have unparalleled personal attention in the future (right now there are only three physics majors, I think). In the meantime, freshmen can soak up intimacy in core and language classes. I've never had a semester in which the majority of my classes were 20+ people lectures. I've actually found it to be a nice balance between intimacy and anonymity.

Columbia2002

The fact that we can actually evaluate the relative merits of Columbia's administration and that of a second world country says a lot about Columbia's bureaucracy.

columbia2007

Oh right, how could I forget...we have corruption too.

http://www.bwog.net/index.php?page=post&article_id=3392

Columbia2002

And anarchy / mob-rule.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfnn7wTgoE8

columbia2007

Viva Colombia!

Skraylor

I really dont think this truly answers the OP's question.

Yes bureaucracy is a part of student life but its not the biggest. Lets be honest here, as an undergrad the 2 places you'll be dealing with the bureaucracy are in the fin.aid. dept, and the advising departments. occasionally you'll have to go to the registrar or something but not often. (also, the times i've had to go to the registrar, i was helped in a very timely and courteous fashion. the worst people in my opinion are the work study people but even tho they may be nasty, they still tell you exactly what you need to do)

that said, i think undergrad life focuses more on professors and whatnot. in that respect, you have a lot of opportunities and most professors love undergrads in their offices and research teams. even doing your own research isnt that hard (yes some paperwork is required but that's the same everywhere)

i could go on but i think it will suffice to say that, while most of the responses in this thread are accurate about the governing body of columbia, you wont be dealing with that the majority of the time.

JohnnyK

I'd pick Columbia over a Dartmouth any day.

Columbia2002

Yes, but one little thing that shouldn't be a big deal can ruin your day (or week) and/or cause you to waste time and energy.