zachs

I was waitlisted at Williams but accepted at Columbia, and my gut told me not to worry about the wait list. A couple of friends keep mentioning the new Ivy League stereotype...large classes with little professor interaction, and kids who just go to a school because of the name that shows up on their degree. Williams emphasized close interactions and kids who are truly interested in receiving an intellectual education.

Going to Days on Campus, however, made me rethink the whole thing because of Columbia's core. Is it different from all of the Ivies because of that? Do Columbia students frequently interact with professors? Would it be worth it to try to push up the wait list at Williams?

wmmk

Wait, Denzera, why does being a good athlete help with getting a good job on Wall Street?

Denzera

Banks like to hire ex-athletes, as commitment to and success on a sports team shows (1) work ethic and commitment, (2) team-oriented social skills and bonding ability, (3) high self-confidence and other alpha-male characteristics, and (4) many bankers are ex-athletes in the first place and like people they can relate to and share interests. #s 1 and 2 are the more-important reasons though.

confidentialcoll

"large classes with little professor interaction, and kids who just go to a school because of the name that shows up on their degree."
"Is it different from all of the Ivies because of that?"

this is rubbish. Most, perhaps all schools in the ivy league are small class oriented, it would hurt prestige if classes were big, it's become conventional wisdom that larger classes are less effective. your classes stereotype is a state school one. People going for their degrees is always the case, but it doesn't matter because it's a small proportion, and because fundamentally if they are achieving and driven individuals, with varied interests and experience them being there for a different reason makes no difference - your interacting with them adds the same value to your life because of who they are. Nothing is as black and white as going to a college only for the name, it's almost always a factor, just more so in some cases than in others. Colleges with seemingly prestigeous names, tend to attract more qualified students in the first place.

I would also vouch that columbia has very few who are here primarily for the name, columbia afterall does not have Harvard or Yale's name recognition.

"Williams emphasized close interactions and kids who are truly interested in receiving an intellectual education."

every college tells you this, columbia does a reasonably good job of implementation also. This is a strength of Williams I imagine. But I dislike educational institues that are too one-sided on either the idealism or pragmatism. For most LACs - students are concerned with higher ideals of purely academic learning, but after too much of this you begin to wish peers were more practical. At a very pragmatic school, education becomes almost vocational and kids miss out on the advantage of a liberal arts curriculum in the first place. Columbia has a pristine balance of both, and you can choose which types of people you want to have a greater involvement in your life.

"Do Columbia students frequently interact with professors?"

yup. They aren't searching for you, but I don't know of a single instance when a student has gone up to a professor and the prof has been rude or rushed the conversation. If they exist they're seldom. I personally work under a professor for a campus job, and have been over to his appartment several times for meals with him and others i work with. I don't feel like I loose out on any intimacy with profs.

"Would it be worth it to try to push up the wait list at Williams?"

what do you lose? but i don't think you have to, because columbia is a solid, possibly better choice.

zachs

confidentialcoll, thanks a lot! you've calmed a bunch of my fears and your advice will be put to good use.

College Yahoo

Columbia hands down. Unless you don't like the idea of going to school in NYC.

FG13

williams! 96.7% of graduates from williams college get accepted to med school and 99.6% (of those who apply) get accepted to law school.
also, there are many williams alum and students working on wall street and j.p. morgan... many ceo's and head of company are williams alum and instantly hire other students/grads that went to williams due to the strong connection the williams alumni network has!! for your academic interests, williams, a lib. arts college with a 7:1 teacher-student ratio is incredible! furthermore, the profs here are here to teach rather than to take advantage of the research facilities and such at many high ivy league schools.

sac

Both offer great opportunities. The real question is what kind of person are you? Are you someone who is likely to be overwhelmed by Columbia and NYC? Are you someone who is likely to find Williams comfortable the first year and then outgrow it or its location in later years?

Here's a way to think about it that might help: When my S was considering which colleges to apply to, a friend of his at Williams told him what she loved best about it was that she knew she could count on seeing all her friends every day. He repeated her words with great enthusiasm. Then I asked him if that appealed to him. He thought about it for a few minutes and said, actually it didn't. He'd gone to a small high school and he was looking for a bigger playing field, if that makes sense. So what was ideal for one person sounded like a drawback to someone else.

Go to the place that will challenge you, but where you see yourself being comfortable enough to take advantage of all the opportunities the institutition offers.

confidentialcoll

"williams! 96.7% of graduates from williams college get accepted to med school and 99.6% (of those who apply) get accepted to law school."

this is meaningless, i'd be taken aback if the % was any less. I mean who can't get into any law or med school.

"or your academic interests, williams, a lib. arts college with a 7:1 teacher-student ratio is incredible!"

columbia college has 620 faculty (not including seas) for 4060 students, that's a student:faculty ratio of 6.5 : 1.

"furthermore, the profs here are here to teach rather than to take advantage of the research facilities and such at many high ivy league schools."

this is the stereotype of a state schools and of Harvard, not columbia college, columbia college very much prizes itself as a small intimate liberal arts college within a large research university. Also there are big advantages to coming to a research univ, like participating is awesomely cool research and williams might miss out on this, although i wouldn't know, at any rate research helps the name and perception of the university.

Relampago

Confidentialcoll....right on point. Columbia all the way.