shelley14

The diploma from either Columbia College or Barnard College says Columbia University. This discussion goes on every year.

Snivellus

NightOwl, I never said that I start off conversations as a "I go to Columbia". I applied early to Barnard and I prefer over Columbia College immensely. However, not everyone has heard of Barnard (some people have, and I end the convo right there). So, I explain to them what Barnard is (liberal arts school in NYC), ending with its relationship to Columbia ("basically the all women's undergrad college"). I never, ever ever say simply "I am going to Columbia".

Honestly, why do you guys even care though? If I'm going to be there, taking Columbia classes, working with Columbia professors, playing Columbia sports, and joining Columbia clubs and organizations, why wouldn't I have the right to identify myself as a student of the University? Barnard and Columbia have had a long history together, and that bond shouldn't lessen just because Columbia decided to admit female students only about 20 so years ago.

And just another tidbit, the Teacher's College is also considered an affiliate of Columbia University, however, those who go there certainly think of it as a graduate school of Columbia.


And I found the quote that I had previously posted here:
Undergraduate Program in Biological Sciences

NightOwl1082

Oy...not sure which thread to reply in, so I'll choose this one.

I'll say first that the second half of my previous post was not directed at you personally--my fault, I should have made that more clear.

Second, I did not at all mean to offend or "bash on" Barnard. I have nothing but respect for Barnard and Barnard students (and hey, I even know a couple). I love that the resources of CU and BC are available to students of both schools, and I know for a fact that I'll be taking courses at Barnard. And my point was certainly not that Barnard students are all a bunch of liars who wish they had gotten into Columbia College...I know that the majority are like you, women who are proud to go to Barnard and proud to introduce themselves as Barnard students.

Rather, my post was directed at Barnard students (I'm not making them up, I swear! I've heard of them! I've even seen one with my own eyes!) who do simply tell people they "go to Columbia" rather than explaining that they are in Barnard College. Face it--though one can definitely point to history and argue that Barnard is a college "of" Columbia University, there is a difference between the two. Does that mean those particular BC students are beneath Columbia or couldn't have gotten in there? Absolutely not...but you have to admit, neglecting to bring up Barnard is a slight bend of the truth and probably indicates the student's insecurity about where they go to school.

In short, I was not trying to make a statement about the institution itself, or even about the majority of students there. I was simply trying to make a statement about those students who do fail to mention Barnard for reasons that likely have more to do with name-branding than with the convenience of the person they're talking to.

So again, I really do apologize...I didn't intend to come off as a jerk, and I certainly didn't intend to pass for a current student--when the topic calls for it, I'm always up front about my status as a lowly CC '12. Hope that clears things up a bit.

Skraylor

you said it yourself, it's not a well known institution. it's an issue of prestige

This is one thing I don't get about some barnard students. What's the point of going to an all-womens college if you are going to choose to take the majority of your classes in a coed setting? (Not referring to you specifically but I know barnard girls who do this). At that point the only reason to go to an all girls school is so that you only live with girls and there are always single gender floors and dorms at almost every school.

A Persona

Well, I come from an immigrant family and when talking to relatives in my native country, I find that I generally have to provide more detail shortly after saying that I'll be attending Barnard College next fall. I go with explaining it as the "women's college of Columbia University."

Some of you disagree with the validity of this statement also, but when most people ask, they really just want to know where your college is and whether it's academically challenging, not the peculiarities of the Barnard-College relationship. Just my two cents.

calmom

Barnard students do not necessarily choose Barnard because it is a women's college -- my d. is there in spite of that fact, though she certainly does not take classes at Columbia out of a desire to study with boys.

What Barnard offers is an urban LAC-type atmosphere with the resources of a large university. My d. also wanted flexibility with course choices (ie., no core) and she appreciates the close advising and relations with the faculty that Barnard offers.

However, my d. has taken about half her courses at Columbia because that is where the classes she wanted or needed are. For example, she has signed up for a stats class and a history class at Columbia next fall, in order to fill her only 2 remaining unfilled "9-ways of knowing requirements" at Barnard. Like every other student on either side of the street, she went on line and looked at what was available by subject; checked out profs on Culpa; and signed up for courses that looked interesting, filled needed requirements, and/or fit within available or preferred time slots. In her lab science course, the class was at Barnard and the lab was at Columbia. So basically a student at Barnard is likely to spend a lot of time taking classes at Columbia whether they plan to or not -- it's hard not to.

But more than that: Barnard students who participate in various activities on both sides of the street are proud of their connection to both their college and the University. My d. has more than once done things that put her in the capacity of a representative of Columbia or its students (she's an officer in a student group)

There probably are some students who try to fudge because they want the prestige of Columbia... but a lot of other students simply feel a connection to Columbia University because they are involved with many Columbia-things, and probably simply refer to themselves as going to "Barnard" or "Columbia" depending on the context in which it comes up.

Anyway, this topic gets beaten to death here on CC, but to people who are actually living in campus housing and attending school at Barnard, its pretty hard to get the elephant out of the room. Columbia, without a doubt, is the dominant presence -- and as far as I know, my d. carries a student ID card that says "Columbia" on it. Believe it or not, its possible to have a sense of belonging and school spirit for both.

But in answer to the OP: no, they are not the "same", any more than two siblings are the "same". They are closely related, but different. (Try to visualize it all as a Venn diagram -- there are areas of overlap and areas of separation.)

ilovebagels

a Venn diagram would be fun...too bad CC doesn't let you post pictures

ColumbiaLover

Columbia University (Columbia college/SEAS) is Ivy League
Barnard is not

confidentialcoll

"ending with its relationship to Columbia ("basically the all women's undergrad college"). I never, ever ever say simply "I am going to Columbia"."

saying the 'all women's college of columbia university' would be incorrect. the precise relationship is an affiliate. I don't know of any univ in which you can apply to two seperate undergraduate schools similtaneously, and get accepted to both.

If you end the explanation like that, you imply that barnard is an undergraduate school belonging to columbia, which, for a variety of reasons, not just the one cited above, it is not. The previous details are irrelevant in defining the relationship between barnard and columbia. It's like me saying "I go to a univ in NYC, it's a small school connected to a grad school, the undergrad engineering school of columbia" at the end I still cite the school as belonging to and subordinate to columbia, rather than closely connected but still an indepented institution like Barnard is.

Snivellus

I said "basically", and honestly no one who is asking cares or understands what "affiliate" means. Trust me, I've tried explaining the true and exact relationship before, but seriously, no one cares that much. They just want to know the caliber of difficulty of your school. For example, someone was telling me that they went to U Chicago, and I didn't really know much about it. I was kinda surprised at why they would go to a random school in Illinois, but they explained to me that it was ranked the same as Columbia University. Columbia is used as a standard which unfamiliar others can understand.

Also, when you go to the Columbia University website and search for my name, it's there. That's gotta count for something

Snivellus

ColumbiaLover -- I think that Barnard is technically part of the Ivy League, due to the fact that Ivy League is a sports thing, and Columbia and Barnard share their athletic teams.

But anyway, what makes Barnard so wonderful is that it is a LAC with the resources of a large university. It's got the best of both worlds, as they say in the brochures haha.

Snivellus

I just realized that calmom basically said that same line. And I have to agree with most of what she said as well. I didn't really scout out an all women's college.. I had a phase in my life where I was dead set on going to an Ivy league college, but then through my college search, I realized that it wasn't really for me. Then I found out about LACs, and really loved the idea of them... but most of them were in the middle of no where! Barnard was the college that had everything that I wanted -- a curriculum that supported academic exploration, a fabulous location with a tremendous amount of opportunities at hand, and a small community feeling without the isolation. It worked best for me, and I seriously don't think of myself as trying to sneak into Columbia College.

ConfucianNemisis

What really gets in a lot of people's craw is the "well people don't recognize the Barnard name, so I say it's part of Columbia" line of justification.

It gets in people's craws for 2 reasons

1) You can hash it any which way you want, but the statement just isn't true. Barnard is an independent institution with incredibly strong academic and social ties to the University. They have their own administration, their own trustees, their own endowment and budget, they have to pay Columbia for access to its facilities and to purchase utilities. The closest comparison is the Claremont Colleges consortium. Do students who go to Scripps of Harvey Mudd say they go to "Claremont"?

2) The reason why people don't recognize the Barnard brand is because you're so happy to keep riding on Columbia's coat tails. This is partially the Barnard administration's fault which at times demands that Barnard be treated as having an independent identity within the University (e.g. demanding equal billing at various events - i.e. "The Barnard-Columbia blah blah Program", but doesn't seem to make an active effort to educate its students in how to establish the Barnard brand in situations like employer interviews etc.

Sidenote: What exactly does the fact that the administrators on facebook lumped Columbia and Barnard together say other than that the facebook adminsitrators know nothing about the internal structure of the university? (There's also the IT issue of email domains that's another source for pointless Barnard-Columbia arguments)

House of London

barnard?
barnard? - College Discussion

You might want to take a look at this thread

Seiken

Do students who go to Scripps of Harvey Mudd say they go to "Claremont"?

We do not; facebook says we do.