Enable edit history as a solution to modified posts?

[xanthom]

I know deleting posts is not allowed because the site owners wish to maintain an archive of information, but why not enable edit history (which I believe the more recent versions of vBulletin have) so that members can delete/modify posts at any time if they wish, while still allowing the option for administrators to retrieve important non-sensitive information (re-adding such information by re-editing the post) if such information is integral to sufficient understandability of the relevant discussion?

I'm sure some members have posted information they find sensitive and have changed their mind later regarding their desirability to include such information, only to find that they cannot remove it. One's desired confidentiality should have priority over any discussion in these forums, and opinions on what should be kept confidential can and do change over time.

Thus, I think that removal of such sensitive information should be allowed, because most of the time such sensitive information is not integral to the discussion, and can often be replaced by alternate examples. If non-sensitive information was removed that was integral to the discussion, then administrators can choose to re-add it (assuming that the original poster also agrees it was non-sensitive). If integral sensitive information was removed, then I think it should be up to the poster, not the administrator, to decide whether to keep it or not (even if the administrator does not find it sensitive).

Relating to this, I think it should be up to the original poster to decide what they consider to be sensitive information. If an administrator re-adds information that the original poster finds sensitive, the original poster should have the option of re-deleting this information, keeping it deleted from the public view permanently, and earning the administrator's promise that such information will not be re-added.

[JEM]

I am not sure I fully understand this request, but I will try to address the issue.

Posters can edit their posts within 20 minutes of posting. After that the posts are not editable except by moderators, who generally remove TOS violations, including spam posts. There are several reasons for this time limit, mainly being that if we were to allow open-ended editing of posts it would confuse and throw off the posts that follow, undermining the discussion. Posters need to be conscious, when posting, that what they put out there will be there on the Internet. Think thrice, post once.

Sometimes posters self-edit their posts within the 20 minutes to make them more courteous or more clear. We appreciate that self moderation.

With respect to personal info, don't put out there what you don't want! If another poster posts personally identifying info about you, we will remove it if notified via a report.

The volunteer mods, whose time is limited, do not edit posts that posters subsequently regret, without very good reason. If we were to do this routinely, we would not be able to address other more significant issues. Again, think before you post!!

Re admins (or mods) "re-adding" info as suggested in the above post, that would be a significant time demand. Mods can not be reviewing all posts, and certainly not re-reviewing them when they are edited. Again, the moderating time of our volunteer mods (most of whom have other full time jobs and demanding lives) is limited.

Again, think carefully about what you put out there on the Internet.

[DCforMe]

Originally Posted by JEM

There are several reasons for this time limit, mainly being that if we were to allow open-ended editing of posts it would confuse and throw off the posts that follow, undermining the discussion.

While I agree with the need to think before posting, I disagree with the above comment. I frequent many forums where there is no time limit on editing comments, and this simply isn't a problem. If substantial new information is added to my posts here within the time frame I can edit posts, I usually clarify by prefacing it with "EDIT:" and the new content. The beauty of forums is that they become a community, and communities are pretty good at self-policing. I can almost guarantee you that if someone were to edit their posts to cause confusion that someone would comment and discourage the behavior. A top-down solution simply isn't necessary here.

[JEM]

Originally Posted by DCforme

The beauty of forums is that they become a community, and communities are pretty good at self-policing. I can almost guarantee you that if someone were to edit their posts to cause confusion that someone would comment and discourage the behavior.

Well, as it is the mods on this forum are challenged to handle the number of reports when posters object to reactions other members have made to their posts. "Self-policing" can too easily go over the line with respect to the courtesy guidelines of the Terms of Service. Of course, some members would handle this well, but for others it could lead to more inflammatory exchanges. Again, we have to balance the desire for flexibility with the demands of moderation. Please keep in mind that our community is huge compared to many other forums.

Also, if posters wish to change what they have said after the 20-minute period, they can always make a subsequent post to clarify or revise their comments. It is just that the original comments will remain. Again, don't post what you do not want out there.

[xanthom]

Okay, I've made quite a few reports requesting changes to posts with information that I want removed. Hopefully this task will be accomplished.

Otherwise, if my posts aren't changed for whatever reason, I still say we should have edit history. In the pinned thread in this forum, it states "We're like Wikipedia in that respect" (referring to the fact that this site does not allow edit/deletion of posts in order to maintain an archive of information) Well, Wikipedia allows users to edit the articles (not delete, but edit). Yet past information is not lost, because there is an archive of all of the versions of the article after each edit was made, and people are allowed to revert the article back to one of these versions if it contains information that is substantial and relevant to the topic. An edit history on this forum would be like that, except only viewable to authorized moderators.

Originally Posted by JEM

Think thrice, post once.

People do not contain the same amount of wisdom throughout their whole life. People tend to gain wisdom with experience and knowledge. With gained wisdom comes a deeper understanding of the world and the tendency to make better decisions. Since this forum did not explicitly require a minimum limit of "wisdom" for joining and participating to be considered allowable acts, it is only natural to expect that there will be desires to remove information posted in the past which may have originally seemed harmless.

[ee33ee]

I vouch for xanthom's proposal. Every other forum I've frequented had easily accessible editing of posts, and never was there a significant problem with post modification.

[perpetualmotion]

yes me too, especially when you feel that a threat you started is getting slightly out of hand. i also think that the original poster should be allowed to delete the original threat, or even just the original post would be fine.

[Roger_Dooley]

We don't have the staff to review hundreds of posts self-edited by members long after posting to see if the edits were necessary or if they "gut" the content of the thread. Some members would go through and delete all of their posts, leaving gaps in many discussions. I've seen it happen, and it's not pretty.

The other thing that happens with long edit windows is that the original poster (or an early poster) changes his/her post, and the subsequent replies no longer make sense.

[ee33ee]

Roger: We know about the negative possibilities, but we're just saying that the positives vastly outweigh them.

If someone makes a serious statement that becomes integral to an argument, why would they wantonly delete their time-consuming post? It seems like this would only be a problem for fickle, haphazard posters, whose posts wouldn't make much of a difference anyways.

If it's still such a worry, how about installing a Quote button next tot he Reply button, so that any response will carry the original statement in the same post?