Why isn't USC a "CC Top University"?

JW Muller · 01-08-2009, 10:58 PM

Could someone please explain why USC isn't a CC Top University? Based on any number of measures, it has as much validity as a top university as do several others.

If you match USC next to other private CC Top Universities, such as Carnegie-Mellon, Emory and Vanderbilt, USC appears to have equivalent 25-75% SAT's, and this among a much larger student body.

USC has significantly higher SAT's than top CC publics UCLA, UNC and Michigan. USC's SAT's even edge out UC Berkeley, and no one is going to be pushing Cal off the top university list.

Even though the USC Subforum is relegated to the obscurity of S in the Alphabetic List of Colleges (found only after not finding USC in U or C), USC still manages to be a CC heavyweight in number of posts.

USC: ( 62,093 Posts | 5,696 Topics )

Carnegie-Mellon: ( 21,662 Posts | 2,470 Topics )

Emory: ( 19,964 Posts | 2,353 Topics )

Vanderbilt: ( 14,128 Posts | 1,777 Topics )

So, if there is a rationale other than inertia that USC is not a CC Top University, maybe someone can make the case, based on objective criteria. As far as I can tell, either Carnegie-Mellon, Emory, Vanderbilt, UNC, UCLA and Michigan don't belong on the list, or USC does.

morganmkm · 01-08-2009, 11:06 PM

USC is a great school and should be on the list but that doesnt really matter does it

nooob · 01-08-2009, 11:08 PM

i think the CC top Universities contains the most talked about universities on this forum, although I don't know about Emory. USC is indeed a great school and IMO should also be on there but then again i could name 10 other schools that should also be on there, but they aren't.

JW Muller · 01-08-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

...i could name 10 other schools that should also be on there, but they aren't.

Well, if you could name them, please do so. I don't think there is any other university so obviously a candidate for inclusion in that august body based on name recognition, selectivity, size, posts, energy and interest.

nw09 · 01-09-2009, 12:28 AM

To be frank, USC isn't that good. don't get me wrong, it's a great college, it just doesn't match up with the other colleges that may be research powerhouses or have amazing students and staff. you can't base on average SAT scores--SAT scores say nothing about the talents and power of the student body, just their average IQ.

Carnegie-Mellon, Emory, Vanderbilt, UNC, UCLA and Michigan DO indeed belong on that list. Carnegie Mellon is a well-known powerhouse in engineering and comp sci, Vandy/Emory are both "south Ivies," UCLA is on par+slightly below Berkeley, UNC is VERY good and held the "best value public college" spot for a while, and Michigan is a research powerhouse. USC, on the other hand, has good film/business programs, a good football team, and a well-known marching band.

So I think it comes down to the definition of CC Top Universities. If it's talking about academic/university strength (hence "top"), then USC--maybe not. If it's talking about top universities on CC, then maybe USC deserves a spot.

JW Muller · 01-09-2009, 02:19 AM

If achievement or standing in research is the criterion, the Top American Research Universities 2007 report ranks USC 23rd, higher than many other "CC Top Universities", including Vanderbilt, Emory, Virginia, Cal Tech, Dartmouth, Rice, Notre Dame, Brown, and Georgetown.

So, wither which way the goalposts are moved, by objective criteria, USC still merits inclusion in the CC Top Universities.

The most probable explanation is the USC band's irritating penchant for repetitively playing Tribute to Troy after every defensive stop. It just makes you want to keep them out of the CC Top University list in reprisal.

Columbia_Student · 01-09-2009, 01:10 PM

Rankings — UC Berkeley College of Engineering

Quote:

2009 Graduate Rankings

UC Berkeley's College of Engineering has placed third among the top schools nationwide, following MIT and Stanford. The 2009 U.S. News & World Report graduate rankings are based on two types of data: expert opinion about program quality and statistical indicators that measure the quality of a school's faculty, research, and students.

2009 Top 10 Engineering Schools - Graduate
1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
2 Stanford University
3 University of California, Berkeley
4 Georgia Institute of Technology
5 University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
6 California Institute of Technology
7 Carnegie Mellon University
8 University of Southern California
9 Cornell University
9 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor

tokenadult · 01-09-2009, 05:12 PM

The listing was set in stone several years ago, I think based on some third-party listing. Management gets asked by concerned users like you every once in a while to change the list, but I've not seen any changes for as long as I have participated on CC. Perhaps if we could all agree on one authoritative source for a ranking of "top" universities we could just defer to that source, but debating about such sources is a frequent occurrence on the College Search & Selection Forum, so I don't know how we would achieve consensus.

JW Muller · 01-09-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

I don't know how we would achieve consensus.

How about having some fun by running a CC tournament to establish the "CC Top University" list?

Currently there are 19 CC Top Universities. It would make sense to make it a Top 20 by adding another. The candidate colleges, say 32 (excluding the Ivy League and Service Academies, which have their own Sub-Forum) would be seeded using USN&WR rankings. CC could then conduct a poll thread, with the #1 seed vs. #32, etc. The posters could discuss the relative merits of each school, and vote on the poll for which is the "Top College". The first round would produce a Sweet 16, and among the 16 losers another tournament to whittle down to 8 and then 4 to add to the 16 to make a CC Top 20.

That is one idea, I am sure a thread devoted to how CC could establish consensus on its Top College List would itself eventually achieve consensus. Given how ridden CC is with those scoring 2300 or thereabouts on the SAT, the procedures for a consensus making competition could be whipped up in short order.

nishanthlux · 01-29-2009, 08:48 AM

well then i nominate USC

tokenadult · 01-29-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

How about having some fun by running a CC tournament to establish the "CC Top University" list?

We discussed this on the moderation team. The consensus response is for all users of CC to take home this message: the listing of certain colleges as top LACs and certain universities as top universities is ultimately ARBITRARY. There is debatability at the margins about what universities belong on the list. In particular, no one affiliated with CC advocates that a college applicant should only consider universities on that list and disregard other universities. There are a lot of universities worth applying to.

Readers of this thread who would like to describe their favorite college or university are invited to visit the

Emphasize the Positive about Some College You Like

thread to say factual things about the colleges they like best.