Elgguj

dewdrop...in all fairness, i think dragging out the issue is the only way to make sense of doug's death. i wasnt as close to doug as laurstar was, but the three of us all talked to each other and knew each other before we even got to campus our first day. we were all so dedicated to cornell. and to see cornell let down a great kid like doug is reason to drag the issue out for as long as it takes for someone to listen. cornell needs to get the message that gorge jumping/swimming needs to be made into a huge issue on campus. and students need to get the message that they should never chance their life to the gorges, no matter how skeptical they may be of the risks. and until that message is made crystal clear, i hope all of doug's friends will keep talking about it.

martinez

influencing others to swim? what? how did i do that. i had never even been in the gorges before, only that once when others encouraged me. but even then i make my own assesment of the risk and decide wether or not to do it..that goes with pretty much everything i do...

martinez

but im not trying to upset you or anyone, did i really come off badly? sorry if i did. honestly im not saying certain things because they will probly upset you because of your closeness, understandably so.

Elgguj

martinez...you said "i hope i dont sound rude or whtever "...so i think you know you came off badly.

waffle

I didn't know him, but this is truly sad, I've been closer to similar tragedies so that's why I guess even though I didn't know him, I've been very sad over this - no one deserves this, condolenscenses to friends and family - RIP

martinez

yeah i said that in case ppl took it the wrong way, which i guess they did any way, i get called rude for saying the truth. had feeling it would happen, which is why i put that line in front...didnt help i guess

laurstar07

its like saying "no offense" or "just kidding" after you insult someone. there is still some truth in what you are saying. so you are admitting that what you said was rude and uncalled for

CayugaRed2005

I concur. Talking about the situation and context of such a tragic incident is often therapeutic to all, and may be the only way we can truly learn and more forward from Doug's untimely passing.

There has been a fair amount of speculation as to Doug's death. The Ithaca Journal's eye witness claims he was sliding down the waterfall. Others claim he was swimming far away from it and got caught in an undertow. I have also heard suggestions that he wasn't the strongest swimmer.

Personally I know three things:

1) I don't know what to make of all of this save for the Ithaca Journal originally reported that he was on the waterfall and the police report subsequently reported that he was not.

2) In early June the amount of water in Fall Creek is considerably higher than when most students experience the swimming hole in late August.

3) I often saw a lot of reckless behavior in the gorges. Drinking and swimming. Sliding down the waterfall. Jumping from that cliff that barely reaches the swimming hole. All are things that I would never do, even though I would often swim in the pool at the base of the waterfalls.

Unfortunately, in a lot of incidents that happen at Cornell, the family desires privacy on the matter. This is due to the fact that in past drownings, alcohol or other reckless behavior (aside from the illegality of swimming in the gorges itself). If laurstar or others have pertinent information to this incident that helps to shed some light on just how dangerous this swimming hole is, I would urge them to come forth with the information, even if it is difficult to address.

As we have seen with the sad and timely passing of Tim Russert (who, coincidentally, danced at my parents wedding) tragic occurrences allow the living to work towards better ends. I have been extremely happy about how forthcoming the Tim Russert incident has been in terms of his health problems, and if anything, his sad end may help others with heart conditions take the necessary precautions. The same with Doug's passing.

I'm really torn as to what Cornell should do about the gorges. In the end I think an acceptable solution would be to 1) keep the gorges and their brilliant natural spaces open to all, 2) heavily fine (e.g. $100 a pop) anybody caught swimming in the gorges, and 3) educate incoming students a bit more aggressively about the dangers of the gorges.

This is going to sound a bit odd, but a lot of alumni appreciate the fact that there is less "hand holding" at Cornell than at other universities. This comes in all shapes and sizes, but includes Cornell's relative agnosticism towards the gorges. Sure, they are illegal to swim in, but Cornell also realizes the intrinsic value they bring to campus. As with everything in life, it is about taking the good and the bad.

Lastly, I will maintain that students on a weekly basis engage in a lot more dangerous activities than swimming in the gorges to which nobody here complains a lot about. I was always amazed at the amount of drinking, hazing, and "loose morals" that occurred among certain segments of the campus population. And in many ways, I think having unprotected sex or drunk driving should be more of a concern on campus than gorge swimming.

waffle

They absolutely should spend more time and effort on educating incoming freshmen about the gorges - they spend more time on what you cannot do on the shower than this. All I remember getting was a lousy pamphlet on it, which I didn't even bother reading since I was already overwhelmed with so much else. Cornell does an atrocious job of educating people on this.

I think that they could either:
1) Get RA's to talk extensively about it (not OL's - they're worthless)
2) Have a Gorge Safety thing along with that stupid Tapestry thing

laurstar07

from the girl who was with doug...she wrote to the ithaca journal abotu their false accusations and "facts"

"To Whom it May Concern:

My name is xxxxxx, and I was a good friend of Douglas Arthur Lowe, the boy who drowned in Fall Creek on June 12th. I was with Doug until the last, and I am writing to correct some misinformation in your article. Doug was not going over a waterfall when he died. The title of your article is completely misinformed. I have no idea who told you that is what happened or why, but they were incorrect. Doug and I had been swimming at the gorges together for about 40 minutes before his death. He did slide down the waterfall twice- once to show someone else how to do it, and the other time just for fun, but that is not how he died. He died by doing nothing more than swimming across the pool to collect his belongings. We were leaving, our bag was on the other side of the rocks, and as we swam over to retrieve it, Doug was caught in an under-water current and drowned.

I am writing this to you and hoping that you will correct the article and repost it, because it is incredibly important that people know that Doug didn't make a mistake. It was a freak accident- nothing more. He wasn't doing anything dangerous, or being irresponsible, he was simply trying to get his belongings and leave, when the currents on top of the water stopped and a swell from the bottom sucked him in.

I witnessed this all first hand, and as a very good friend of Doug, it is very important to me that this article be fixed, or that at the very least an editor's note go out stating the misinformation.

I would very much like a reply.

Sincerely,

xxxxxx"

Elgguj

waffle good point on the tapestry thing...forgot about that. cant believe they would choose tapestry over something important like educating the class about gorge safety.

yg18

Tapestry is about social justice, it has nothing to do with personal safety.

Now that people know people actually die in the gorges they're willing to listen to gorge safety, but when students first arrived on campus and don't know anything about the gorges and saw the fact that there are 200 other people swimming down there, I don't think it would have made a difference what the RA said.

However, I will pass it on to residential programs and see if they can add it into the RA training.

The fact of the matter is, Doug wasn't the first person to die there and he will not be the last. Talking to some guys on the IFD, people getting pulled out of the gorges work like clockwork every year. Between June and July someone always gets pulled out of there in a body bag, then people are really careful in August until the next year when there are new students on campus who haven't experienced the gorges yet.

I am torn as well as how Cornell can do this better. On one hand it shouldn't take away the opportunity to observe the beauty of the gorges (classes actually take students down to the gorges), on the other hand safety #1. Also, the gorges can turn from calm to wild under currents in matter of minutes. It's very hard to predict and say how safe it may be or not be.

CayugaRed2005

It's incredibly scary that Doug died by a freak undercurrent.

collegemom02

As a parent of a student in the class of 2011, reading about this accident breaks my heart. I think that Cornell should post signs at the spots where people have drowned due to "freak-accident/undertows" to warn people of the dangers. I don't think most people would think that it is dangerous to swim in the gorge (unless you were doing something risky like jumping from high ledges, etc.) When I read that people have died in that spot before, I think it is irresponsible for Cornell not to post a sign warning that "people have died at this spot due to undertows that can occur without warning." Like when you climb Mt Washington, you pass a sign near the top that tells you to turn back if the weather turns bad because weather can become dangerous quickly; the sign also says how many people have died by not turning back when they should have.

Elgguj

^ i agree 100%