last choice ivy? - Page 3

chendrix · 10-26-2009, 01:15 AM

There is much more of a homogeneity in psyche amongst Brown students, which is what brings them all there.

Cornell offers something different to every person, thus there is no one overarching reason why people choose it. Which is how we end up with such a hugely diverse student population.

This diversity brings together students with conflicting religious/political/ethical ideologies, and the school itself does not censor any group, and so Cornell is a hotbed of debate and intellectual argument on every issue from minority rights to healthcare ethics to foreign economic policy.

Here are the requirements in arts:
Courses of Study 2009-2010: College of Arts and Sciences

whitecadillac · 10-26-2009, 10:14 AM

that's what i thought, and that's what i meant by cornell being "overall liberal but not overwhelmingly so". are you saying that it is equally divided between liberal, conservative, moderate, and apathetic, though?

also, thank you for the link. it was very helpful. but yeah, it is like a traditional core 4 liberal arts education, which i still think it very different than an open curriculum. not necessarily better or worse, but it IS different.

Tboonepickens · 10-26-2009, 12:37 PM

Conservatives are a definite minority on campus, and the vast majority of students are varying breeds of democrat.

dana09 · 10-26-2009, 02:47 PM

Something else worth considering is school size. Cornell has 12,000 undergraduates and Brown has 5,900. I don't know how large Brown's graduate student population is, but Cornell's grad pop brings the Ithaca campus up to 20,000.

So while neither campus is high school sized (<2,000 students), Cornell has a lot of new people for you to meet all the time. And you can make Cornell as big as you want - find 20 people that you like and stick with them for 4 years or meet 20 new people every day. It's just nice to have that flexibility.

Furthermore, this large student body affords more networking opportunities down the line. As everybody already mentioned, there is a lot of camaraderie amongst Cornellians. No matter what year you graduated, what major you were or if you were on opposite ends of the social spectrum, there is an instant bond when speaking Cornellian to Cornellian. I have contacted many fellow alumni in my job search and everybody has been very generous in trying to help in whatever way possible.

I'm not really familiar with Brown's campus and student life, but I can tell you that you will be able to find a place within Cornell and make it your own. All in all, I loved my time at Cornell and wish I could go back in time to repeat the experience.

katmandoo · 10-26-2009, 04:03 PM

frankly, i'm still offended that you seem to think that Cornell can't possibly be someone's first choice school.

also, you seriously can't find the requirements?!? it's on the website. please learn how to research better.

whitecadillac · 10-26-2009, 04:28 PM

@tboone: thanks; that's what i read somewhere else, so thanks for clarifying. i'm guessing that while most are liberal, they are still not overwhelmingly so?

@dana: thanks for the additional info. campus population definitely is something to consider, and i am leaning towards preferring a larger campus population. would you say, though, that since cornell is a private school, that everyone still gets help and attention from the administration/faculty? or is it more like "everyone is just a number"? i'm guessing the former.

@katmandoo: i'm sure i'm not the first person you've heard to question this. it seems to be a stereotype that cornell is the lowest-tier ivy. there are a lot of jokes about the ivy league in which people act like cornell shouldn't even be in the league. as i'm sure you know. these claims are probably invalid, but there must be a reason for their existence. either 1.) it's most people's last choice ivy 2.) the quality of education at cornell isn't as good as the other ivies 3.) it has the highest acceptance rate and is therefore the least selective. hopefully and probably, it is the last choice.

and maybe you should learn to read threads better: someone already gave me the link. it isn't on the academics section of the website (the logical place it would be.) but thanks for your concern.

dana09 · 10-26-2009, 05:11 PM

I think that professors and the administration are as responsive as they can be. Every once in a while you might run into a professor that is colder, but I had very positive experiences with all the faculty that I encountered over my four years at Cornell. They are very aware of the pressure that students are under and accommodate whenever possible.

Of course, personal interaction may be tougher in larger classes, but I believe only 25% of the classes at Cornell have more than 30 students in them. So that shouldn't be a common occurrence for you.

And to clarify, I don't think that it's fair to say Cornell being private is the sole contributor to administration/faculty's helpfulness. It's part of the culture that has been bred over the years. I was a student in CALS, one of the statutory (state-funded) colleges, and got the best attention I could've asked for. I would think that to be the same from UC Berkeley, UMich or UNC... top institutions that happen to be public.

whitecadillac · 10-26-2009, 05:14 PM

all right; that's good to know! thanks!

and yeah, there are SOME public schools like that, but it seems to be a lot rarer. it's one of the inherent benefits usually associated with private schools. also, i've heard plenty of people at berkeley complain about lack of personal attention/too many large classes, so even the best publics might not have the same faculty/student relations as privates.

countryangel926 · 10-26-2009, 05:27 PM

Since I've been here, I've pretty much found that faculty/student relationships are what you make of them. If you never ask your advisor for help, never go to your professors' office hours, etc., you might feel like you're not getting enough individual attention, but it's really your responsibility to do all of these things. I've reached out to faculty members very often and found it to be a very positive experience overall - everyone was willing to make time to help me personally, all because I took the initiative to just ask.

dana09 · 10-26-2009, 05:28 PM

Very valid point. And good for you, taking this into consideration- I have to say that I didn't really think about it much when I was applying to schools. It just happened to work out really well for me.

Many professors have regular office hours set up. It's not a bad idea to just go in the beginning of the year and introduce yourself, get to know the professor, etc. so that you're more primed to go again when you actually need help later in the semester. One of the worst things I did freshman year was to wait too long to ask for help. This was more because I had never had to ask for help in high school and I was embarrassed/intimidated for no good reason.

Your professors are there to help you learn. Take advantage of that. Build relationships with them. Just like the student body that Cornell attracts, they are a diverse group and have interesting stories. You just might learn more from them outside of the classroom and/or find a mentor in the process. Oh, and it's always nice to somehow demonstrate your appreciation of their time/efforts at the end of the semester- a simple thank you card or email can do the trick... keep the good karma flowing!

2013dad · 10-26-2009, 11:28 PM

As for any "jokes about the Ivy lLague in which people act like cornell shouldn't even be in the league," take a look at the world view:

For the second year in a row, Cornell has been ranked No. 15 in the Times Higher Education-QS World University Rankings.

The rankings were established in 2004, with Cornell debuting at No. 23. Cornell moved up to No. 14 in 2005; 15 in 2006; 20 in 2007; and back to 15 last year.

That is probably about as reliable as any jokes you may have heard...

whitecadillac · 10-27-2009, 12:19 AM

i'm not saying that I think cornell isn't worthy of its prestige. of course, there are several non-ivies that are ranked above it, and it is the second-to-last ranked ivy, so that might contribute towards elitist's attitudes towards it? but really what i was wondering with this whole thread was if--since there is a considerable amount of people who put down cornell and act (incorrectly) as if it is lower-tier than other ivies--that affects people's school pride. however, many people on the thread have said "no, cornell has tons of school pride". just the answer i was hoping for.

cc102 · 10-27-2009, 12:33 AM

Quote:

As for any "jokes about the Ivy lLague in which people act like cornell shouldn't even be in the league," take a look at the world view:

For the second year in a row, Cornell has been ranked No. 15 in the Times Higher Education-QS World University Rankings.

The rankings were established in 2004, with Cornell debuting at No. 23. Cornell moved up to No. 14 in 2005; 15 in 2006; 20 in 2007; and back to 15 last year.

That is probably about as reliable as any jokes you may have heard...

i wish i understood what argument you were trying to make. it's far too ambiguous.

monydad · 10-27-2009, 08:59 AM

Threads, titled, essentially "your school sucks, doesn't it, prove why it doesn't" have no place here, they are offensive by nature, whether or not by intent. Nobody should have to called on to defend their school in this manner on their own subforum, but it is particularly absurd here, for this school.

whitecadillac · 10-27-2009, 09:51 AM

i admit the title isn't really demonstrative of what the thread is about. but if you read the thread, you'll see that--as i've stated many, many times--the thread was NOT asking students to defend cornell itself; it is a thread inquiring about school pride. and my inquiry has already been answered.

although i have to admit that another inquiry has risen along the way. i'm still curious as to WHY cornell has the "last choice ivy" reputation. as a prospective student, it's only natural for me to wonder and try to get truthful info about the quality of education at a particular school. i have no doubt that cornell is one of the very best universities in the nation. but even so, you have to know by now that it has a rep for being lower than the other ivies. (even though it's ranked higher than brown, you don't get people saying "brown doesn't deserve to be an ivy" or "brown is the school you go to if you don't get into the other ivies".) so yes, it does make me wonder. i'm sorry if my curiosity offends you, but when a school has a rep for something, i have the right to know where the rep comes from and how accurate it is. is it because it is ranked as the second-lowest ivy? that doesn't really make sense though, cuz of the brown thing. i'd assume it's not cuz quality of education is much lower. so is it cuz it has the highest acceptance rate? cuz that's the only thing that might make sense.

i'm sorry if you're offended by my questions and concern. but please understand my motivation. it's not cuz i just want to go to only the most "prestigious" schools. if that were true, i would be applying to harvard, and i'm not. the reason i ask this about cornell is cuz i just want the most truthful idea of cornell as i can get. and as a logical person, i know there has to be some reason for cornell's rep among elitists. maybe not a good reason, but there has to be something, and i want to make sure that "something" is really false and not actually a detriment cornell has.