La La La

So there aren't any big academic advantages of dartmouth over williams?

(specifically, history, government/poli sci, economics)

smog

if you have some specific interests, and rather than rely on others pure opinions, go have a look at the departmental websites at each school:

range, availability of course offerings
structure of major requirement
faculty composition and cv's
supplementary programs , speakers, etc.
relative numbers ( faculty, students- how much power/influence/money does the department command at the school?)

For economics, I think Dartmouth may have a little more to offer, but really I think your decision comes down to when small is too small.

IvyIsGreen

I think Dartmouth may have a higher matriculation to chosen graduate schools and a better connected alumni- last two Secretaries of Treasury are Dartmouth grads-- but Williams is a top notch school. I would just choose Dartmouth for those reasons and also overall environment offerings.

sybbie719

Actually, if students are looking to go to grad school (PhD programs, masters programs) then there will probably be more students at Williams going this route. There are also a large number of from Williams who will also be going off to Med/Law school.

There are probably more students from Dartmouth probably end up working after graduation. D's friends range across the board, the majority are working(IB, Consulting, teaching, journalism), some are at Med school, has a best friend completing LSE this spring, many are in law school, (all across the T-14, the majority are attending top 20 schools).

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~csrc/pdfs/07gradoutcomes.pdf

Law School Information

Gunn

In most perspective, Dartmouth is a much better school than Williams.

Humboldt

Dartmouth.

JLaw45

I had this same dilemma this year choosing between Dartmouth, Amherst, and Williams, and I ended up choosing Dartmouth. The difference is that I was being recruited by their football programs, and that did play a big role in my decision. Dartmouth has a D-1 program vs. the D-3 programs at Williams and Amherst. Dartmouth's coaching philosophy sealed the deal for me-they were all about creating good people and not just mountains of muscle.

From a non-athlete's perspective I still think it would have been an easy decision. I met really great people at all three schools, but I just couldn't feel Williams. Anyone who has been there knows that the place is REALLY small. There is one traffic light in the whole town-I just couldn't get used to that. There was a lot of homogenity to, and the very few other blacks who were there told me that the lack of diversity was an issue. They even tried to encourage me and a couple of other recruits to attend in order to rectify that lack of diversity. Both Amherst and Dartmouth seemed to be more diverse. Hanover is also a very small town, but it has a different feel to it. Its more vibrant, there just seems to be much more to do. In williamstown I felt like I was in the middle of nowhere, but in Hanover(despite the fact that it has only 2000 more people than does Williamstown) I felt no such thing. Part of it may be the quality of life aspect. Hanover was ranked by CNN and Money as the second best place to live in America.

Best Places to Live: Top 100 - Hanover, N.H. (2) - Money Magazine

And I feel that this ranking was pretty accurate. I could feel the difference between the two places-Hanover just seemed like a better place to be. I probably would have chosen Amherst over Williams as well since that town is also more vibrant. Trust me, if small size worries you, you might have some issues at Williams. There seems to be more diversity at Dartmouth to.
Dartmouth also has the Ivy League pedigree, another thing that compelled me to pick it over Amherst and Williams. Amherst and Williams are not slouches-an examination of college stats and rankings will show you that they hold their own against Dartmouth and the other Ivies. But Dartmouth is still an Ivy League school. There is just something about that status that is attractive, both to myself and to everyone I talk to. Tell them I'm going to Williams? "That's a good school, congrats!". Half of them don't even know it. Dartmouth? "Wow, dude, that's frikkin awesome!" EVERYONE seems to know the school's reputation.
I don't know if its justified or not, but there is a difference between an Ivy pedigree and a Little Ivy pedigree. That prestige, I'm sure, has some influence in the workplace as well when it comes to getting your foot in the door. People know it, and they seem to respect it more. That's not to say that you won't do very well at a Little Ivy, but if you're looking to work right after college I think that Dartmouth will give you an edge. Again, I'm not saying that this is fair nor am I trying to insult Little Ivies and their students-this is just what I've observed.

Bottomline is this: If you're really into outdoor activity, I think Williams has the edge. That's the only reason I'd pick Williams over Dartmouth. You'll have more to do outside there. In all of the other categories you mentioned as fields of interest(music/theater and publications/radio) I feel like you'll have just as many opportunities at Dartmouth without having to deal with the small size and apparent lack of diversity. The place is more vibrant and you get an Ivy League pedigree.

And don't worry about the frat scene either. Part of the reason I chose Dartmouth was because I was told by the football coaches that they discourage drinking-nearly half of that team doesn't even touch alcohol. This appeals to me as I, like you, don't drink. Ever.

I thought that this fact would make me a huge anomaly at any D-1 school(especially as an athlete), but not at Dartmouth. This was the ONLY coaching staff I ran into that spoke this way about encouraging sobriety.
Remember that these are the young, testosterone filled 18-22 year old football players that you'd expect to be big on the party/drinking scene...and yet nearly half of them avoid it without any peer pressure or anything like that. If they can do it despite all of the stereotypes associated with young athletes and alcohol, then you can. That alone shows that there is no stigma associated with sobriety at Dartmouth.

IvyIsGreen

^ agree with the feel that you describe between the 3. However, disagree that Williams has more outdoor activities than Dartmouth. Given that the Appalachian trail and Ct. river run through the Dartmouth's campus; the accessability to great ski slopes in Vt. and NH; horse riding; trails and cabins; cross country trails; fishing; etc., all on property owned by Dartmouth, I don't think Williams competes. Dartmouth is the largest private property owner in NH, and much of it is made available to students for activities. All of this adds to Dartmouth and Hanover being more vibrant than Williamstown. Incidentally, you also describe some of the same reasons why S picked Dartmouth as his place to play football- the Money Magazine article, etc., were all cited by him as his reason to choose Dartmouth. Congratulations- the more you learn about what Dartmouth offers, the better it is and confidence you gain in your decision.

JLaw45

^I didn't know a lot of that actually, so I'll stand corrected-I think Dartmouth does actually have an edge on Williams in the outdoors as well.
It is still just my opinion, but I can't see any reason to pick Williams over Dartmouth given the choice.

La La La

I heard that Williams is better if you want to go to graduate school . . . is this true?

gellino

Don't kid yourself. I've met plenty of people who have never heard of Dartmouth or don't know it's in the Ivy League. However, most likely, any grad school or job you apply to will know that Dartmouth and Williams are both top 15 schools in the country.

I don't know if I would say it's better but the personality of Williams is different as approximately double the number pursue a PhD among Williams grads (14%) than Dartmouth grads (7%), which definitely is consistent with the more pre-professional vibe among the students.

ChandlerBing

I was rejected by Dartmouth and accepted to Williams, and I think both schools are fantastic.
The choice comes down to fit: neither will proide you the better education, they're just too similar academically.

Visit both, get the feel of both, and then decide.

About the whole reputation thing: I didn't know what Dartmouth was until the end of freshman year, when a friend's brother got in. All his senior friends were talking about it, and I had to ask: "What's Dartmouth???"
Though, half the people I talk to about Williams say "Wait, Williams & Mary?"
FML.

Pawn_H7

Williams does have the edge on outdoor activities, though it probably won't be a huge factor. It has 3 mountain ranges around it and all the local skiing etc. At Dartmouth, you just don't find any mountains that you can really hike on the AT without going for a drive. That said, however, both regions are really beautiful and I don't think that the distinction really is all that meaningful.

gellino

There's nothing within 15 min of Williams the way the Skiway is 15 min from Dartmouth. Also, there is much better skiing within 1 hr 15 min of Hanover than Williamstown. Not that your decision should at all be based on that.

Pawn_H7

Skiway is more like 20-25, and its nothing really special (but who am I kidding, I prefer nordic anyways). Williams definitely gets more snow.