dukie11

^Good point.

OSUforME

Duke needs to follow Harvard and Penn's lead and eliminate loans for all students. I feel like Duke is always lagging behind other top schools when it comes to these initiatives.

Duke and Penn have very similar endowments and Penn just got rid of all loans for students.

I love Duke and I love going to school here. But dealing with the financial aid department here is an absolute joke. My brother who goes to MIT gets a much better package. We are identical twins, everything is exactly the same, yet his financial aid is much better. Ivy league schools (ie Brown, Penn) will match your best offer. Duke doesn't even consider it.

This is a step in the right direction, but a small one. I realize Duke doesn't have the endowment to go as far as Harvard and Yale. But they can certainly eliminate loans like Penn. It would cost about 15 million a year. And if Penn found a way to do it, Duke shouldn't have much of a problem either.

bluedog

^Harvard hasn't eliminated loans for all students. In fact, 1/4 of the graduated students last year had loans. Harvard (~$26 B endowment), Yale (~$16 B), and Stanford (~$17 B) all still have loans just like Duke (~$6 B), while Davidson (~$428 million) and Princeton (~$16 B) have eliminated them. I think this is more a difference in philosophy rather than having the financial means to do it. The Stanford financial aid officer explains: "We felt like it was very reasonable to ask students, before we give them thousands of dollars in institutional scholarship funds, to take on a portion of the burden." Duke, similarly, feels that "it is not inappropriate to students to consider helping support their cost of attendance" through loans. Duke Boosts Financial Aid, But Says Loans Still Have a Role :: WRAL.com

One school you mention, Brown, just became need blind about 3 years ago and still isn't need blind for transfer students. Duke has been need-blind for years, and I'd consider Duke to be way ahead of Brown in regards to fin aid, even if Duke says they will not match offers. Duke's packages are also generally larger than Penn's, as I understand (at least, this information comes from around 3 people I know applied to both and received fin aid packages from both - Duke's was larger. I understand this is a small sample size. And for the only person who asked Penn to match Duke's offer, they didn't, so I guess it depends on the officer/pacakge) While Duke is a step behind the top few players, I'd still say the fin aid program is one of the top ten/fifteen best in the U.S. And while I'd like Duke to eliminate loans such that I don't have to pay them back, I kind of understand why they exist and do think that puts more responsibility on the student, which can be a positive thing if it's not too large of a burden.

loveduke22

The problem lies in that there is a huge gap between income brackets in regards to both outright aid and loans.

I agree with bluedog completely that students should expect to take out loans to pay for their education...my friends take out loans, my parents had to take out loans...it is an essential part of financing an education for many people. We have all these schools making huge steps to eliminate loans for families making, say, under $60,000 a year. But then we have families in the middle to upper middle class who are taking out ridiculous amounts of loans. For instance, I consider my family to be upper middle class and we take out around $20,000 a year in loans, which is incredibly frustrating because it's not like we're rolling around in money or anything. It makes the burden less and and less for one income bracket but as tuition increases it makes it more and more miserable for another. SO I think bluedog is right to suggest that someone needs to step back and realize that student loans are not the end of the world and, well, graduating from a school like Duke, many students should certainly have no problem paying them back. It's important for all income brackets to realize that loans may factor into their aid decisions...and then schools can focus on making them less of a burden for the middle class.

That said, I think Harvard's 10 Percent plan is right on, and something schools like Duke should aspire to as endowments expand and whatnot. The plan allows families making up to $180,000 a year to benefit, which is a great number when you consider tuition to be around $45,000 a year. So if you make $70,000 a year, it puts it on your familiy to find a way to pay $7,000 a year. Likewise if you make $150,000 a year, $15,000 which is an incredibly reasonable pricetag, in my opinion, and makes things much more manageable and much less of a burden for a huge group of families sending students to these high-priced schools.

I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining, but sometimes I think people forget that people pay taxes, and taking home $______ a year in annual salary doesnt mean you have $_______ to pay tuition.

OSUforME

I don't know where you got your info Bluedog, but everything I have read said Harvard eliminates all loans. (Penn, Davidson, and Princeton have too)

? Harvard, Duke expand financial aid UWIRE: Powered by The Content Generation

"Harvard said it would significantly reduce the expected contributions from middle- and upper-class families and eliminate loans for all students."


Bluedog, I can't speak for others, but my package from Penn was larger (and you are right, I am not sure if they match packages since I never asked; I am sure Brown matches them).

And Im not saying eliminate loans for parents. My parents have taken out tons of loans for my brother and I. I am saying Duke should eliminate loans from financial aid packages.

If Duke really wants to give their students a leg up in starting their careers, eliminate loans. The career center is awesome, but it isn't going to help me as much as eliminating the 20,000 I will owe Duke upon graduating (again, parents will owe much more).

In all honesty, I think Duke is a fairly selfish university who is driven by rankings rather than the best interest of its students. I love Duke. I love the atmosphere here. But I often feel like the students are second to Duke's reputation.

bluedog

Hey, OSUforMe. Well, the article I cited above that says Harvard still has loans is from Dec 8, 2007. The article you cited is dated Dec 11, and says they just eliminated them the day before (the 10th). So, I guess you're right that Harvard no longer has loans. But it just happened two weeks ago and hasn't actually happened for the students yet until a new semester. I just hadn't heard about it yet....

Harvard is most definitely on a different level of fin aid than Duke and is far far more generous to middle and upper middle class students. Families that make up to $180,000 only have to pay 10% of their annual income. Duke's new announcement for lower and lower-middle class is good, but the upper-middle class doesn't seem to be getting that much relief.

Everybody's experience with financial aid seems to be very individualized and packages at one school are not always better than another for every student (although there are exceptions; e.g. Harvard's package > Duke > Northwestern). I guess they take different things into account. Personally, Duke has been very generous to me, although paying back $22,000 is not going to be that much fun....but it's worth it!

Mika08

So let me get this straight...if the parents make less than $40,000/yr., then the student tuition is free?

collegehopeful78

This would help me with a family income of 24K. I'd love to go for free.

grandmaster101

Duke Financial Aid Sucks!!!!!

tokenadult

I'd like to get a reality check on the more nationally prominent schools over in the general thread about this year's offers.

Which Colleges Have Given You Disappointing Financial Aid Offers?

jassmynex3

Yale and Harvard financial aid isn't all that great. I have a brother and sister that had been accepted to each school respectively, and the aid was unreasonable. Our family income is a bit more than 200k per year, and just becuz we were 20k above the 10% rule thing, we have to pay 50k per year as opposed to someone of a comparable salary such as 180k who only has to pay 18k per year. Both my brother and my sister are currently attending Caltech which was VERY generous. Our family contributes about 14k total for both siblings.