Venting (Am I the only one that is experiencing this)

iambored10 · 07-17-2012, 09:11 PM

I am working/co-oping at a large company globally recognized but in a location that is a rural setting. I am working with several engineers and some management. I am however experiencing alot of hostility from engineers who have been with the company 10+ yrs and don't have a college degree (basically worked their way up to engineering). I ran into a meeting and found some individuals commenting on my education and some "under the cover" sly remarks that stemmed from some issues we have been having on some projects of ours. Is anyone else experiencing this kind of situation? Am I the only one? How should I act/approach such a situation? Just curious because it ****ed me off last week.

noleguy33 · 07-17-2012, 10:10 PM

Worked their way up to engineer?

jgoddensa · 07-17-2012, 10:35 PM

Not sure about the states, but in South Africa where im from, a lot of the times you'll see guys who have worked their way up from a trades position to doing engineers work. They'll refer to themselves as engineers, and sign their name as Eng QBE (qualified by experience).

iambored10 · 07-17-2012, 10:38 PM

Exactly what jgoddenusa said. They used to work in field as operators now they're in engineering

terenc · 07-17-2012, 11:21 PM

Well, there's nothing you can do about it because they're above you in rank.

The only thing you can do is to perform well and show them how wrong they are. If you can't perform better than or at expectations, then you only make them feel more justified in disparaging your education.

KamelAkbar · 07-17-2012, 11:30 PM

It's harder to attract educated people to the rural areas. The fact that they are doing a job they don't have a degree for makes them nervous. Your presence is threatening to them. It's natural. I'd try to get the heck out of there

Quote:

Well, there's nothing you can do about it because they're above you in rank

Rank? As far as I can tell OP wasn't in the military? There's a lot he can do. He could start by either leaving and not gracing that company with his probably strong potential, or outperforming those engineers in every way while being as humble as possible.

Japher · 07-18-2012, 11:59 AM

I disagree with Kamel, and I am wondering what they could have said that would anger you (the OP). My guess is that something wrong/bad happened and they feel that their experience and understanding wasn't taken into consideration and may have been able to prevent this situation.

Personally, I think engineers have a lot to learn from operations and that operations tend to 'scapegoat engineers more times than not. If individuals come out of operations into engineering they still tend to take this attitude, right or wrong, and are great at playing the blame game.

Engineers generally serve as change agents. The best way to ensure that a change is well received is to include everyone with a vested stake in the operation on the development of the change and/or the implimentation of the change. I also make it abundantly clear that the team is responsible for the success of the project, not any one individual. This way they can't take a "I told you so" attitude or place blame anywhere but on themselves.

Finally, engineers need to learn to humble themselves. It is ok to ask help or guidance from those more experienced. I would ask them what there problem is and how I could go about making sure that it didn't happen again. They will either tell you, which is good, and you can make a cultural change. Or they won't tell you, in which case I will let them know that as long as they keep their mouths shut that they are just as much a part of the problem and not part of the solution.

KamelAkbar · 07-18-2012, 02:47 PM

Not sure what part of what I said you didn't agree with. Was it about rank? Rank and respect are not the same thing. OP should certainly respect their experience, but I don't think the word rank should ever be used in the private sector. Leaders and mentors are one thing, but rank infers a sort of absolute submission that just has no place anywhere you aren't getting shot at.

My point was not that those guys don't have valuable experience, but if they're being condescending and specifically mentioning his education it's probably because they're threatened or jealous. Not having a degree is the source for a lot of insecurity for people who have advanced in their jobs. Even Steve Jobs and Bill Gates both had some insecurity about not finishing college. Obviously OP isn't going to be an expert at the job initially, that doesn't mean his education isn't valuable and can't be threatening to those without it.

It's still possible OP is just being arrogant. If he seems to not be willing to work as a team that would also be a big problem.

The social dynamics of being the new guy is tough, though. It's even more tough if something about your background causes coworkers to perceive you as competition.

Japher · 07-18-2012, 02:50 PM

I disagree with the "get the heck out" or advice to leave. Sorry I wasn't clear on that.

jrcsmom · 07-18-2012, 03:12 PM

I live in a very rural area in a state that ranks fairly low on percentage of population with any type of higher education.

My son will be heading off this fall to go into civil.

I understand the OP because in my area I frequently experience attidutes almost expressing a dislike for education. I regulary hear complaints that engineers only understand theory and aren't taught how things actually work and aren't worthy of the salaries they are given.

Not far from where we live, an interstate is being expanded and in a nearby town they are constructing an off-ramp. Apparently incorrect measurements were taken and some work that had been completed, had to be taken down. A few weeks ago I was having dinner at a restaurant with my son. At a neighboring table the guests were loudly mocking and ridiculing those who worked on the project. I was actually surprised when they said that the state had wasted their money hiring engineers and that they should have hired farmers because farmers could have done a better job.

There's really nothing you can do to teach those that don't want to be taught. All you can do is take pride in the fact that you are not among them.

iambored10 · 07-18-2012, 08:28 PM

Well, the issue is I wasn't flaunting my education. I'm an intern and HR always asks what school do you go to. As an intern, its something people would like to know. Yes i am school. Yes I'm trying to get experience. Yes I had some hiccups in my project, but I'm learning. I am on top of everything they have given me and I have done more projects than assigned originally. My manager loves me and has shown great appreciation (has a college degree as well). Another engineer is just giving me a hard time about some stuff I did that he didn't give me any guidance on and just brushed the project over to me (a project in an area that I am no expert on).

terenc · 07-18-2012, 08:53 PM

Quote:

As far as I can tell OP wasn't in the military? There's a lot he can do. He could start by either leaving and not gracing that company with his probably strong potential, or outperforming those engineers in every way while being as humble as possible.

The word "rank" is not exclusive to the military. They are higher in "rank" in the sense that they are in higher positions than the OP. The OP is only an intern/co-op participant; the other engineers are full-timers and have been at the company for many years, and are likely in higher "ranked" positions (on the corporate totem pole).

KamelAkbar · 07-19-2012, 10:26 PM

Quote:

The word "rank" is not exclusive to the military. They are higher in "rank" in the sense that they are in higher positions than the OP. The OP is only an intern/co-op participant; the other engineers are full-timers and have been at the company for many years, and are likely in higher "ranked" positions (on the corporate totem pole).

Yeah, and you could also call your boss your taskmaster. See how he likes that.

terenc · 07-20-2012, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Yeah, and you could also call your boss your taskmaster.

I'm glad you agree.

happyORmom · 10-30-2012, 08:38 PM

Sometimes it is not about college degree, it is more about "my way or highway" mentality. The longer whole bunch of people stay in the same place, the lesser they like a new person or new ways positively until they realize that the new person is good at what [s]he is doing or learning fast etc. That's called warming up. So hang in there, learn what ever you can (that's what matters at the end of the day) and make sure your boss can give you good references.