I need a down-to earth talk about life as an engineering student. - Page 3

jwxie · 06-29-2010, 08:01 PM

Why do we need an endless fight over whether engineering is difficult or not?

Face the fact. It's a subjective question. It depends on the individual.
Some people are gifted talent students.
Some enjoy engineering and what they do, but they have to spend extra times to maintain good GPA.
Some professors are on your hater list and you will never get 4.0 because of them.
Some colleges are more competitive than the others.

Although I have to agree with most people (including my physics teachers in high school) that to become a good physics major you have to be really good in physics. Memorizing formulas do not mean you are a good physicist. The ability to apply them and see the insights of theorems and laws are the real challenges.

But this is not a discouragement. Just a fact that sometime you might find yourself more comfortable and more talent in other areas.
This is why freshman year is very important - THE god-damn year to look into different engineering fields and other majors

JohnAdams12 · 06-30-2010, 04:04 AM

You need to have the passion and willing to put the time in the Engineering major. We lost 30% of our ChE class from sophomore to senior year. Many of the students that transferred into other departments were brilliant high school math and science students but just didn't want to put the time and effort into Chemical Engineering. The students that stayed loved the major as the Junior and Senior year classes were much more exciting and interesting - and did very well in getting top jobs or into great graduate or professional schools such as Air Products & Chemicals, Schlumberger, Proctor & Gamble, MIT ChE, Stanford, Wharton and Harvard Business Schools, Oxford/Cambridge and Harvard Med.

Anteat3r · 06-30-2010, 04:20 AM

Engineering is as difficult as you want it to be. Breeze through classes with C's and you hardly have to put in any work at all. B's are a bit more difficult, and A's require quite a bit of effort.

I pulled a 4.0 last quarter with 20 units all upper div engineering while working a part time job, doing research, and I was still able to party/drink/chill 2 nights out of the week and take a full day off each weekend. It really comes down to how efficiently you study and how you manage your time. My tactic has always been: study if you're feeling it, and don't if you're not. This way I optimize my "chill" time if I'm not feeling like hitting the books, and put in great study time if I am.

As an incoming freshman I say you have very little to worry about. Just enjoy the college experience and make sure you devote at least SOME time into studying.

Btw, I never took calc in high school but still managed to score among the highest in virtually all of the calc classes. Make sure you take a breather now and then to identify your strengths/weaknesses. This way you can devote more time to subjects which you are not at strong in, think forward, and maintain an overall high GPA.

I do agree with the poster above me. If you have absolutely no passion in understanding engineering then you'll end up like the majority of my friends who have failed out or dropped out of engineering. I'm moving onto my senior year and I would say for every 3 people I've known in Engineering since freshman year 2 have failed or dropped out. Most of which occurred even before we hit the upper div courses (i.e. lower div math, physics, chem) the rest left after statics, dynamics, thermo, etc. I only know one person who left towards the end of 3rd year. My class sizes have thinned out quite a bit so I'd imagine most people moving onto senior year with me are here to stay.

Beta_Fist · 06-30-2010, 10:49 AM

Thanks to everyone else who's responded. You've given me a lot to think about.

A question...is it bad to skip the introductory classes? I just found out that I got a 4 on both the chemistry and calculus ab tests, and that places me out of chem 101&102 and ma141. I was planning on taking those classes as just a refresher, but I'd like to hear from some engineers (chemE esp, but everyone really) about their freshman class experience.

mamaroneck · 06-30-2010, 11:21 AM

^ I'm with beta_first. It's always a big temptation to milk all your AP credits for all it's worth. (You've eraned it through hard work in HS, anyway). Also, you get more room, credit hours-wise, to take fun non-engineering classes you've always had an interest in. And those classes will probably boost your GPA more than an engineering class would.

Beta_first, the interesting thing is, if you follow your school's curriculum (basically, act like you have no APs), it schedules that you'd graduate in 4 years.

I like the summer classes idea. Except that they cost extra. Eep!

vblick · 06-30-2010, 11:37 AM

-OP

Most kids who didn't study in high school tend to carry that work ethic into their freshman year as an engineering major. Many people find out the hard way that they need to apply themselves in order to be successful. I'd say you already have a leg up on your proactive approach to preparing yourself for your first year. There is no doubt about it, engineering is very challenging. The concepts and the amount of work. At the end of the day, if you're generally interested in what you're studying you'll be okay. One key thing that you might not be aware of is that most engineering classes are graded on a curve. Their is no set scale on the syllabus. This really changes the dynamics in terms of studying. At least it did for me. I went to an elite engineering school where it seemed like everyone studied all the time. I considered myself to be an average student so I knew that in order to hit the curve or better on my exams I had to study the material inside and out before the exam. Very rarely did I walk into an exam only looking over the material. I did as much studying as I could for an exam as my schedule permitted. Final exams aren't a treat either. They usually cover all the material that the class did terrible on from previous exams. So remember, it's not just what you know but now well you know it relative to your classmates.

ISUCyclone33 · 06-30-2010, 02:04 PM

I transferred in over 30 credits from various AP and Honors classes. Even though I was admitted my freshman year as a sophomore I still took the intro classes to get used to college life. It's hard for me to say it helped when I look back on it and because now I wish I hadn't wasted my time. From what I've read, it seems to me like you could handle skipping the intro classes and going straight into the upper level courses. It will definitely give you more leniency for the future whether you can graduate early, take more classes, or even re-take a class if you chose.

jwxie · 06-30-2010, 02:14 PM

@ beta

It might be a good idea if you are confident. People can get 5 and not remember any of the stuff they did in AP Physics C, AP Calc BC, and not able to progress in college. Because they forget so much, they have to pull extra and extra time reviewing old stuff.

Again, courses are taught by professors. They are human beings. They can be your stupid hater list forever. And bad grades will make you sad.

If you look at MIT's admission, it says MIT wants transfer applicants try not to skip any introductory course. I have to agree with MIT myself. As an engineering major (especially as a physic and engineering major), I find calculus really interesting and have given a lot of insights into mathematics and science after taking calc 1, 2, and currently calc 3.

Here is a story. I never knew that tax rates is using calculus.

I thought people just came up with random good-looking rates. But the distribution of tax rate is a continuous function.

I didn't take AP calc, but I had calculus in high school. I forgot some of the stuff.

Moreover, the decision is on you. Look. I am glad that I have good professors - professors that can actually teach you. Not those who look at the book and teach you. Right now I am taking calculus 3 (mutli-variable), and my professor write averagely 4-6 pages notes on the board. He just stands in the front and talk for 2 hours and a half.
He's pretty young actually. I enjoy a lot.

So if you really want to skip the introductory course - no problem, but think about two things:
#1 Do you think you remember most of the stuff?
#2 For science - is it revalent to your major? If you are civil engineering, you probably don't want to skip introductory physics just yet. Our school offers tough physics program. Unless you get a 4 on AP Physics C, you can't get away from calculus-based physics I.

Again, think about those two things.
If biology and chemistry aren't really that needed in your undergraduate program, for example, computer engineering. Hey, just skip them. If you are chemical engineering, you really don't want to mess up your knowledge if you are not confident enough to skip it.

just my 0.3567 cent

MGSinc · 06-30-2010, 10:20 PM

Montegut:

Check if your son's school has coop; it's usually a well organised program, and it gives you highly relevant experience with good companies.
You can take evening courses while working full-time, but usually the max is 1.

EngineerHead · 07-01-2010, 12:39 AM

boneh3ad, my favorite quote of all and of Einstein thereof, "It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer."

Magneto · 07-01-2010, 01:34 AM

well I guess I'll add in my 1.5 cents since Im still learning too and ill even put in my experience. Please take something from my story and others, feel free to add insight to me if you want

When I entered college, I had no idea what engineering was at all or even what I wanted to do with my life. I was just suggested by my HS guidance counselor to go into since it coincided most with my grades and I generally enjoyed Math/Chem (for what they were at my school). When I thought of "Chemical Engineering," I just assumed it would be basically chemistry combined with some kind of math at all. I had no idea that there was physics involved. computers, all that other good stuff that I either never had in my high school (since my school kinda sucked academically) or never even heard of. But nonetheless, I went to school somewhat confident that it would be just like high school and I would just do incredibly well (even though I had never even heard of my school until I got accepted to it, another story, another time).

when I got there, I'll never forget move-in day: I was on a floor with all guys at a pretty academically oriented college with a good engineering program. We had a floor meeting where we introduced ourselves and said our major. Out of the 20 guys on the floor, 18 said they were engineering majors. When it was my turn to introduce myself, I said my major and everything and someone asked out of the blue, "How many AP credits do you have?" and I was just confused since I had never even heard of AP until that point. Fast foward the intros, everyone dispersed and started talking among themselves. I kept hearing the same thing over and over about engineering being hard, calc being hard, stuff about AP, etc... and i just felt alone. I was wondering what I had gotten myself into, but I made a resolve to myself to put it behind me and reach my potential.

1st semester of freshman year did not go as I had expected as an engineering major. Classes I thought would be really easy to me (calc, computer programming, chem) where unbearbly hard for me and as a result i ended up dropping down to 8 credit hours (barely passing chem and getting an A in freshman seminar). I remember talking to my mom on winter break and we decided that maybe engineering isnt for me due to everything that happened. So I went back 2nd semester as a psych major.

2nd semester was a little better as far as credits go. I was getting through alot more classes than i had before but barely missing the good standing mark by 1 credit hour. I took my first psych class then also along with calc 1 again and some other biology and spanish class. I remember feeling "off" in a sense that I felt that I could/should be doing so much more with my life. I talked to my freshman advisor and a couple upperclass Chem E majors and told them my situation and about me. They told me that I needed to work harder to get where I want to be in life. Any major isnt going to be a walk in the park neither is school. Yes Im going to have those classes that I hate and not do well as others in, but there will be others where I will do better than everyone else. It balances out. If I were really heart set on engineering of some sort or felt that I had a higher purpose in life, then I need to make a stand and stand by my choice. It was a few days after I talked to those various people that I decided that no matter what it takes, Im going to finish my engineering degree. so back to my story, I felt "off." I had just discovered that I absolutely loathed psychology and I knew that I did not want to flounder for the rest of my life due to the lack of opportunity, so I switched back into engineering and even declared Chem E.

Over the summer, I had to take classes at my school to get back on good standing. It was then when I met my Chem E advisor for the first time. We sat down and talked a bit and he went over my grades. Since they were less than stellar for an engineering major (I'll admit I knew that was comming as a couple of C's and an A/B here and there isnt really that good), he asked me if I really wanted to be an chemical engineer to which I answered, yes. At that point, he started talking down to me, saying that he doesnt understand how I could even think that Chem E is even a feasible option since my grades indicate a lack of passion for math/science. I was crushed here. As a 20 year old man, I just wanted to break down and cry like a baby. It stung, but regardless, that is his opinion that he's entitled to. So I sulked for a few weeks, not even caring about my classes, feeling useless and just generally thinking that he was right. Then something amazing happened. I went to talk to my Portuguese teacher and asked her advice. She told me that I should never feel sorry for failing or feel lesser than anyone who does well with little effort. Life is full of trials for anyone, regardless of passion/lack of passion for whatever subject or anything. Who cares what one person's opinion is? I just need to have a strong opinion of myself, confidence in my abilities, and the mettle to stand by my convictions and my calling to do something great in the world. It doesnt matter if I have to work harder at it than others as long as I got it done.

1st semester of sophomore year. I may have taken that a little far, since I overloaded my schedule with a bunch of engineering classes and due to other things, was prevented from having a social life. I was determined to work like I never have before to do well, but alas to no avail. Multivariable calc and computer programming again did me in gpa wise. This taught me harsh but very valuable lesson, Take life in strides and know your limitations, then try to exceed them little by little. I took physics for the first time ever, didnt get an A, but found out that I actually enjoy it when I can relate the material to something or come up with my own scenarios. I still hate computer programming with a passion tho (I just fail to see the logic that im supposed to see in it). nevertheless I finished up that semester and due to outside factors, I was forced to take an extended break (another story, another time). Now Im at home at a community college taking these hard classes (science/math) and Im actually enjoying them. Call me crazy but I took P2 and actually was very intrigued by it and most people hate it. Now Im in Diff Eq and doing well in it.

So basically, what I want you to take from my story and struggle, OP, is that life isnt so black and white. Sure there's engineering that will be easy to some people, hard for others, some people will only have to study for 2 mins while people like me have to study for at least 3 days and barely get by. but thats ok. The important thing is taking life in strides and then going beyond your limitations little by little. next thing you know, you'll have accomplished more than you thought you could do. If you get into college engineering and do well with little effort and minimal suffering, great. If you find yourself struggling, but still have the heart to stand by it, excellent. There is no set "life" of an engineering major since different types of people major in it. but remember: Stand by your convictions, exceed your expections, and be something in this world. As a wise rapper said "God will take you through hell, just to get you to heaven."

P.S. Im happy to say that Im not ashamed of leaving my regular school with a 3.0 gpa. I know some people on here are going to belittle it, but its a great accomplishment for me.