Dungareedoll

TV: In the perfect world where mom and dad are happily married and have both been there to raise their children together then I think you can say that kids are entitled to an education and it can be discussed as to what extent the parents can go to pay for college. However, the OP's scenario and my nieces aren't the perfect world. Therefore, I do think that courts have to jump and do a little rough justice. I said it before and I'll say it again I don't think its fair to dump everything on the dad. I'm not even happy that my own "sister' doesn't contribute a dime, since she is still getting finaid. But that child is due her education. When my sister went to court. It was stipulated from the beginning that my niece was a very good student. It was important that the court understood that my niece was willing to work summers, had always been working summers, worked hard for her grades, was a straight A student, athlete, had performed lots of school and community service etc etc etc. She was no slouch. My sister did have to prove to the court that my niece was a very good candidate for this type of expense. So then because this child doesn't live in the perfect world of a "married household" and her father could take a loan to make the tuition and cut back on the extras, it was deemed appropriate...... And I agree with that... Like I said before they aren't making this man pay $40/yr when he is only making $80K. The courts have formulas. So does that make sense, or do you still think this father should have been able to walk away and say he is done raising his daughter?

Dungareedoll

mom; I was under the impression because the step mom went to Wellesly that she wasn encouraged to atleast apply there. I certainly could be wrong about that. Just my impression. And if you can encourage applying to that school that whats wrong with applying to Yale, MIT etc. If anything she may get better finaid from the Ivies.

TV4caster

"TV4, its not as simple with divorced parents. Either parent may be more inclined to leave first family on the curb."

I agree, but how about a really contentious divorce where even the custodial parent knows that the child either won't study, or won't work to pay for any of the costs, or any other of the valid reasons you gave for a non divorce case parent to not have to pay for a child to attend college. Then what happens? The non-custodial parent throws huge money down the drain that they might not be able to afford to lose. That is the problem with making blanket laws.

Dungareedoll

Let me be clear. First off they aren't blanket laws. Like I said my sister had to prove with report cards, letters of recommendations, national test scores etc etc etc that my niece was a serious student. Judges aren't going to make anyone pay for an education that a kid doesn't want. So if you kid doesn't want to go to college and would rather just enter to work force as a stock boy at the local supermarket then thats it. However, if the kid wants to go to a vocational school because he or she would like to become a mechanic or hair stylist then guess what? You need to help out. I think the problem is that you keep thinking that you're done being a father once the kid is 18 but you're not. You're legally not done until 22/23 if the child wants to go to college.

StarbucksBarista

A few clarifications. STEP MOM went to SMITH. Father went to UW. Mother never graduated high school.

I lived at my moms for 16 years because my dad wasn't around very much. I moved in with him between my sophomore and junior year (summer when I turned 16) so that he could help me do something more with my life. Life at my mother's wasn't very stable or supporting academic wise. My father wanted me to move in for my own sake but it has been hard transitioning and still is.

kmcmom13

Just a comment to TV, because on one hand I do get what you're saying. But in reality, having been through the experience (but not sued) I do have a dog in the race. Do you think it's okay that my second husband contributes the lionshare of my son's efc? I mean, obviously, my son and I think it's grand
But we don't buy new cars or rack up consumer debt or quit jobs for no reason and mysteriously have money for things all the time EXCEPT college, so hey, we were in a position to help, while biodad had a long list of excuses

Biodad's grand plan for the education of a 1 percent gifted kid was to have him go to a community college instead of a rigorous flagship. Fortunately, none of us were looking down the barrel at 60k a year, because said kid had enough sense to consider the financial aspect and loved his instate flagship which happens to rank well globally in his discipline, plus he received nice merit. And yes, we HAD to guide that process, but we did look at the usual 60k suspects too.

My point is that people make choices all the time that affect their "rationalization" of the often stark and shocking reality of the cost and sacrifice involved in sending a kid to college. I had reminded biodad forever about saving for college. In kiddo's sophomore year, I even sent him anticipated tuition cost samples. When the time came the cupboard was bare. Even though mcson's school is a CSS school, the scholarship meant said slack was more like 12k not 60 so we and he just sucked it up and biodad sends pocket money every month.

Do I think a judge should be able to dictate how biodad spends his money once my son was 18? You betcha, because I can name about 80k worth of stupidity that would have handily aided mcson had he needed it for school.

Back when child support was "elective" or not punitively addressed by the courts, what percentage of single moms actually saw any? How did that change once there was legal authority to collect child support? Sadly, the results will show you that there are many people who need legal authority to define their responsibility. At the same time, I appreciate the fact that the entire adversarial process can net unjust outcomes, and that the system can go too far, and that lives can be ruined. I've avoided that where I could not to be a nice ex, but to not contaminate my son's relationship with biodad through toxic haggling.. My reward has been that biodad does not seem to assess, plan for, or step up for his share of responsibility. he's otherwise a nice guy and he does love his son dearly, no question.

So, the point of this long ramble is that if the law were uniformly consistent here and each parent was legally expected to contribute a REASONABLE share of at least in-state college expenses for children of divorce according to their means, it would be better for the kid overall to have clarity EXTERNALLY. As taxpayers, you and I are paying for all those single parents at fafsa only schools whose ex's may well have the means -not that the aid available through fafsa is enough anymore.

If it's okay for the law to compel folks to pay child support, then it's okay by me for the law to compel folks to pay according to their means for post-secondary education. If either parent is not willing to support a college student, then they should emancipate them -- not leave them stuck with the twin demons of "my parents make too much but won't pay my efc" which is exactly what's happening here - except that by my books, wellsley is way too rich an option for his income level, and I'm not really sure how at 60k his efc could be 20k (should be 8 or 9k) so I suspect he either has assets or starbucks has been gapped.

Starbucks, have you considered asking Wellesley if it would defer you for a year and recalculate if you went through the process of legal emancipation? Would you be able to move out and support yourself? From wellesly's perspective, I can see where they'd treat you as a dependent anyway since the fact remains you have a parent able to contribute, but just not willing...but it might be worth investigation at least, because it might communicate the gravity of your dad's position in this. Just a half-baked musing....

Starbucks dad does not deserve to get credit at tax time for his daughter as a dependent if he's not willing to contribute according to his means.

an outside authority than the internal wrangling and denial

saintfan

income is not 60k - household income is about 110k (60 for bio-dad and 50 for stepmom), bio-mom is about 47k.

On tax credit - again, I could be wrong, I haven't been through this yet, but if dad pays $2500 in qualified fees would he not be able to recoup that in a tax credit? That sounds like free money except you have to pay some out to get it back. A private school may adjust your need next year, but the state publics are not meeting need anyway and cost about her EFC, so it would likely have no impact of available aid for in state publics.

saintfan

p.s. Dad and stepmom also sound like they have predictable income streams. This is not a case of self-employment, commission based income or unpredictable overtime. As a teacher and social worker whatever they bring home will not vary much from month to month compared with other types of professions. They should be able to sit down and calculate a reasonable monthly contribution to build into their budget at 110 k per year.

CTTC

So OP's parents want her to go to Wellesley, yet her father won't give her any $? Absurd. I'm confused, because in another thread OP said that neither of her parents went to college, and then in this thread she says her father is a UW grad. I always wonder when different facts are stated in different threads...hope you told the colleges the truth.

OP, your father needs to give some of the money he gives to church and family to YOU if he wants you to to go Wellesley. If not, then have a great four years at UW (and I think you will; it is what you make of it, after all).

kayf

TV -- I dont know of any state which has blanket rules. Every state that I know that allows judges to mandate college tuition payments also has judge evaluate situation. In NY, where I live, people of moderate means are frequently ordered to pay their share of the state university (about 7K tuition, and then room and board). Some judges may say first two years at CC. Childs ability/school record will also come in to play. Of course, every judge is different, but where I live, I am told that many judges (who get paid about 100K) look at in terms of what would I pay (adjusted for income of parents). so if parents come in with 200K income, they are not going to get a lot of sympathy

momofthreeboys

^^ Yes, the point I was making earlier...there is no guarantee that a judge is going to determine that a family needs to support a private school education. I don't disagree with divorce decrees that cover college, but I can't imagine a judge ruling for more the minimum cost of a public education TBD the income levels of the bio parent(s).

mom2collegekids

I haven't seen any evidence that the parents wanted her to apply or go to Wellesley. Maybe I missed that.

yes, the SM was a Smith grad, but that doesn't mean that they insisted that she apply and go to elite schools. They may have suggested that she apply and see what happens FA wise, but that's not the same as "bait and switch".

kayf

I think that when Dad used a lie about being on Facebook as a pretext for pulling the rug on paying for college (regardless of which college) that I regarded him as being less than honest, pulling a bait and switch, etc.

mom2collegekids

I think the dad did use the FB incident to shut down any further conversations with the D about how the Wellesley costs would get paid.

All along, the dad had said that he wouldn't contribute, yet the D still applied to schools that would likely require a contribution. Very likely, the D has been wondering (or complaining) about how that contribution would get paid. When the FB incident happened, the dad saw an opportunity to shut the entire conversation down...you're out on your tush on your 18th B-day....case closed.

I never got the feeling that there was a bait and switch. I just saw it as an opportunity for the dad to prevent his D from further talking about needing money to go to Wellesley.

As much as we'd all like to believe that never-married parents have the strong relationships with their NCP kids the same way as divorced parents, it isn't often the case. For nearly this student's entire life, her dad was the NCP...never married to the mom, not involved much with the child, he married another woman and had children with her.

kayf

Mom2, how do you know what difference is between never married and divorced. I know divorced parents who are very contentious. I know divorced parents who i suspect wouldnt lift a finger, but that they knew the other parent would take it to court.