gaiou37

Happymomo:

Thank you for wishing me success, I appreciate it. And I'll definitely check out Storti, couldn't hurt right?

I have to say though, when I went to Canada, even for a few days, it just felt like home

mom2collegekids

gaiou...

You're a guest in this country. It's impolilte to come here and then verbally trash it.. When Americans go to other countries and do the same, they're called "ugly Americans"...a title they deserve.

the fact that your posts indicate that you've been told several times to return to your own country if you don't like it here, then it's obvious that you've done a lot of America-bashing since you've gotten here.

As for the professors that agree with you, that doesn't surprise me...many are essentially socialists that live in ivory towers and don't really have a clue about how jobs are created (since few of them have ever actually created a job....and the ones that have aren't typically that far left.)

Get your passport out, it's time for a new stamp.

gaiou37

If you just visit a country and you criticize it, then yes it's impolite. I have been here for six years though, so I'm not sure "guest" is the right word here. I didn't leave right away because honestly, I am not affected by the negative things I am even denouncing, I am only witnessing them. I truly feel bad for the people who not only are affected, but also think it's normal to be treated like that. I am not criticizing the people here, but mainly the big corporations and the government. I wish that when someone criticizes the U.S (whether they are foreign or not), people would not get so defensive and attack that person back, but rather wonder why someone would say negative things about their country (especially someone who had no negative feelings about the US in the first place and really wanted to like it).

gaiou37

Maybe it's just my fault for being a liberal haha. By the way, if you want to learn some facts while having a good laugh, I recommend Mark Morford's column in the SF Gate. He is brilliant!

mom2collegekids

If you don't have permenent resident status, then you're a guest.


I suggest you talk to people who actually create jobs....they're brilliant....and they're feet are on the ground, not on some lofty platitude.

gaiou37

You sound really arrogant and apparently can't respect someone elses's opinion. Lighten up! Don't be so upset because I dared criticizing your sacred country, I didn't attack you personally.

And I do have permanent resident status in the U.S.

TV4caster

"How lucky for you that you managed to find those few Americans who had some knowledge and common sense, weren't greedy, weren't messed up, and actually had some ethics. You must have had a hell of a time hunting them down! Your comments are incredibly offensive, poorly considered, and immaturely expressed. And you wonder why mom2collegekids made that remark? I say, poor Canada!"

Gaiou is only expressing what most Americans feel as well.

Here is a link to a Pew Research poll where only 17% of Americans think our country has good or excellent moral values but 82% say it is either poor or fair.

71% of people thought ethics were getting worse.

This is also from 2 years ago and I would bet big money that the numbers are even more lopsided now.

Values

Here is another one that shows the trend continuing

http://www.gallup.com/poll/128042/am...ins-bleak.aspx

So to summarize, the vast majority of Americans agree with gaiou.

absweetmarie

mom2collegekids,

I always read what you post with interest, because I appreciate your perspective. So I was a little shocked that in your response to gaiou37 you hurled this: "As for the professors that agree with you, that doesn't surprise me...many are essentially socialists that live in ivory towers and don't really have a clue about how jobs are created (since few of them have ever actually created a job....and the ones that have aren't typically that far left.)"

I appreciate the fact that jobs are created and appreciate those who create them. That doesn't mean I don't also appreciate "ivory tower" academics; society needs thinkers as well as doers. The stereotype of academician as socialist is really not helpful. What in the world is your support for that? It is such a reductive position. I wasn't exactly looking for evidence to refute your point but I was curious what would happen if I googled "are all academics socialists?" I found this very thoughtful musing on the topic by a Berkeley anthropologist: Define “liberal”; define “academic”… « The Berkeley Blog

But back to gaiou37: Can we not assume that he or she is exaggerating the degree of agreement "most professors" express for his or her inelegantly stated position? Even if they agree on some points (being very generous here), I expect that gaiou37's professors' positions are substantially more measured and nuanced, even if those professors do have concerns about the ethical health of the nation as many Americans do, based on the interesting results of public opinion research shared above by TV4caster.

mom2collegekids

I highly doubt that Gaiou is expressing what most Americans really feel. I highly doubt that most want to leave this great country.

People's opinions on moral values in this country or ethics isn't necessarily what Gaiou is complaining about. Liberals don't really get upset over "moral values" declining. Liberals generally don't like any boundaries for moral values...except in extreme cases...like polygamy or other really out-there things.

Gaiou...from the get-go, your posts have expressed an inability to respect others' interests and goals. You distain people for being too money hungry or capitalistic or however you describe them. As long as these people aren't doing something illegal, then what they do shouldn't bother you.

the people who are "too capitalistic" in your mind are the ones that are creating jobs...thank God for those people. Those profs that you're listening to probably haven't created 10 sustaining jobs between the lot of them.

And..if you are a legal resident and getting any kind of aid or instate rates...thank this country for that. Did your parents move to the US as well? Are they moving to Canada as well? (Be sure to stay pretty close to the US border in case any of your family has a very serious health issue...that way you can do what many Canadians do...cross into the US for healthcare because otherwise they'd have to wait too long for the care that they need.)


Absweetmarie....Yes...society needs "thinkers"...no argument there. But when the thinkers don't have much "real world" experience, then their outlook, conclusions, and/or theories are often flawed and their recommendations often have awful unintended negative consequences.

TV4caster

M2C said- "I highly doubt that Gaiou is expressing what most Americans really feel. I highly doubt that most want to leave this great country."

I was talking about his feelings that America is greedy and lacking ethics, and the statistics prove that most Americans feel that way too.

Here is another link I found about attitudes of other countries toward America, as well as our own opinions of ourselves.

America’s Image in the World: Findings from the Pew Global Attitudes Project | Pew Global Attitudes Project

This summary from the survey is quite telling (in my opinion)

<b>"One note about American greediness and our own self-image – while publics in Europe, the Middle East, and elsewhere characterize Americans as greedy, we Americans are actually more likely than any other public to say we are greedy and many Americans think the description immoral fits too."</b>

gaiou37

Hey it's nice to see that others have added to the debate.

Anyway I just think that many things here are messed up: the greediness of the government, the presence of so many right wings conservatives trying to deny low income women the access to birth control, the outrageous amount of cash you have to shed if you want to eat healthy (but please let me clog my arteries and get diabetes by making fast food so damn cheap lol), the inconsideration of people in general in their actions, the way the government give tax breaks to big corporations who have a terrible influence on the world and the US economy (for example wal-mart - the worst corporation on this earth IMO - exploiting people here by underpaying them and giving them ****ty health care AND enslaving people in China where almost every wal-Mart product is Made), the fact that you absolutely need a car to go anywhere (worst urban planning I have ever seen, with the exception of certain parts of the country), the terribly expensive health care system that fails to cover millions of people (yeah right mom2collegekids who come to the US from Canada for health care reasons? I will get my health checked in Canada the health care system is way better there AND cheaper I have checked), politics are so biased and unrepresentative (how can there only be two parties??? People should have more choice), getting an education is way too expensive and favors people who have money, this country doesn't do enough to improve the environment, etc and the list could go on and on. The US have a terrible influence on the world ( and don't even get me started on the way they handled things after 9/11 and the war in Iraq, and George Bush Lol that would take 2 years to discuss) and it just makes me sad. Just because the government doesn't do anything illegal doesn't mean it's not unethical though. Anyway I just wish it wasn't that way because I truly wanted to like this country. It's not all bad, but there is just too much bad for me.
Cheers

absweetmarie

Good people of CC, can we have a pact not to answer gaiou37's post #71?

gaiou37

Hahaha even I would agree to that, it would just take too long. Also, sorry for the randomness of all that stuff, it's just what came to mind. On the other side, I did not mention the positive things, and there are positive things of course, so this post is clearly way too negative.

weatherga

gaiou37's posts are a bit intemperate, but he or she is presumably young. I'm a bit shocked at some of the responses from more mature adults. As an immigrant from Canada and naturalized American, I find the chauvinistic attitude not one of the best features of some of my fellow Americans.

As a veteran of both systems, I vastly prefer Canadian healthcare. The American way is not necessarily best in absolutely everything.

Also, lamentably, I do find Americans less moral in some ways. Canada has virtually 100% income tax compliance. It's just assumed that everyone pays their share. I've met sooo many Americans who seem to feel that cheating on their income tax is normal and acceptable. Then there are all the public officials who seem to have a chequered history with the IRS.

Of course there are loads of great things about the US and my fellow Americans too.

absweetmarie

Thank you for your perspective, weatherga.

In America, some people have "checkered" histories. In Canada, they call them "chequered." Canada wins the spelling war!