Harvard/Ivy League Financial Aid

ACuriousmind · 07-29-2012, 03:24 AM

Hi guy,

I was hoping someone could answer a question regarding Harvard's financial aid for undergraduate students.

Here's my back info:
- I'm currently 23 and I will be 24 when I want to attend (Fall 2013)
- I briefly attended college for one semester back in 2008. At this time my family did support me and we took out student loans to help pay for school.
- Since 2009 I have not attended school
- I currently make $40,000 a year (I have been employed full time for the past three years).
- My parents make around $160,000 a year
- I live on my own, I don't receive any financial assistance from my parents. I pay all my rent, utilities, cell phone, etc.
- If accepted my parents would NOT offer me any financial support whatsoever. Unfortunately I don't have any real documentation on the rational behind this, nor do I care to discuss it in great detail as it is quite personal (To clarify, it has nothing to do with sexual preference, religious reasons, etc.).
- I have been filing taxes as an independent for 3 years now.
- I have around $15,000 in savings (I did quite well for myself during the banking crisis in 2008/2009)

With all that being said, here's my question: Can I realistically expect that Harvard will allow me to ignore my parents income when calculating my EFC? If so will this be largely automatic or will I have to go through a bunch of appeal processes to make this possible? Unfortunately attending any school that will require me to include my parents in my EFC will be out of reach for me financially.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks!

mom2collegekids · 07-29-2012, 06:35 AM

Since it sounds like you'll be 24 by the time that you'd enroll (or by Dec 31 of that year), I think you'd be independent.

The problem will be that you earn a good bit of money for a single person. The income guidelines for ivy aid is based on being a FAMILY, not a single person. Plus, you have savings.

You might have a significant contribution expected which could be hard if you're not going to be working much while in school.

Of course, you have another big hurdle....ivies accept a very low percentage of applicants so acceptance would be like a lottery win.

sybbie719 · 07-29-2012, 09:51 AM

You will have to look up the financial aid policies at each school. While you may be an independent student for federal aid, it does not automatically make you an independent student for institutional aid.

At many schools that give their own institutional aid, if you start as a dependent undergraduate student, you will finish as a dependent undergraduate student regardless of age, having children or marital status.

For example: at USC OP will be considered dependent on parents regarding institutional aid from USC.

While OP may be independent, regarding Federal aid, s/he will need his parent's information to get institutional aid from USC.

for example, USC states the following:

Quote:

To be considered independent for purposes of awarding university financial aid, undergraduates must meet one of the following conditions:

You are at least 26 years of age before January 1 of the award year you were admitted to USC.

At the time you complete your FAFSA, and at the time of entry to USC, you are married.

At the time you complete your FAFSA, and at the time of entry to USC, you have children who will receive more than half of their support from you during the award year and the summer preceding the award year

You are an orphan or ward/dependent of the court

If parental information is required when you are admitted to USC, you will be required to submit parental information throughout your enrollment at USC, regardless of your age, marital status, or other changes in circumstances (excluding the death of both parents).

If you feel, however, that your particular situation would justify independent status, you may submit a written appeal. Appeals should explain your circumstances in detail and include supporting documentation.

USC Financial Aid - Applying & Receiving Financial Aid - Special Circumstances - Factors We Will Consider

at Cornell

Quote:

independent Students

If you are admitted to Cornell as a dependent student, you will remain as such for your time at Cornell. Even if you are considered independent for federal student aid, Cornell may consider you to be a dependent of your parents when determining institutional aid eligibility.

Cornell will consider you to be independent if:

you are a non-traditional student and have been self-supporting for more than five years; or

both of your parents are deceased; or

you are a ward of the court

If any of these situations apply to you, please contact our office to discuss your individual circumstances. You will need to request the application for independent student consideration.

http://www.finaid.cornell.edu/specia...-circumstances

sybbie719 · 07-29-2012, 09:56 AM

The university of chicago states the following:

Quote:

What if I am financially independent of my parents?

You may be considered an independent (self-supporting) student by federal and state program guidelines, but for purposes of awarding University of Chicago grant assistance, we have a more restrictive definition of independence.

To be considered independent, you must be at least 24 years of age by December 31 of the award year (December 31, 2011, for the 2011–12 academic year).
In addition, you must provide proof to the Committee on College Aid that you have been self-supporting for the past three years and the current calendar year, and that you will be self-supporting in the calendar year following your enrollment in the College.

NOTE: If you enter the College as a dependent student, you will be considered a dependent throughout your undergraduate years.

Are there any exceptions to these rules?
If you do not meet our definition of independence but you are an orphan or a ward of the court, you may be considered self-supporting by the University.

http://collegeaid.uchicago.edu/files/1112_brochure.pdf

You will have to be able to prove that you have received no support from your parents over the past 3 years (they have not paid for your school, they did not claim you on their taxes, etc?)

IN addition, the school does do database reviews (they can probably look at your past FAFSA):

Quote:

Database Reviews
The following are among federal agency databases reviewed by the Department of Education to confirm some
of the information on your FAFSA form:
Social Security Administration for confirmation of Social Security numbers and U.S. citizenship status;

Selective Service System for confirmation of Selective Service registration status, if applicable;

and
Department of Homeland Security (formerly Immigration and Naturalization Services) for confirmation of eligible noncitizenship status, if applicable.

If data you provided on your FAFSA does not match the data at these agencies, the Committee on College Aid will ask you for additional documents to verify that the information on the FAFSA is, indeed, correct.

Examples of documents that you will be asked to provide are a copy of your passport to confirm that you are a U.S. citizen and a copy of the Selective Service acknowledgement card to confirm that you are registered with Selective Service.

http://collegeaid.uchicago.edu/files/1112_finance.pdf

I think it would be a non-issue at Columbia because they state:

Quote:

I have taken some time off from school. May I still apply as a transfer?

Potential applicants to Columbia College who have taken a break of more than a year in their education (with the exception of those who must complete national military service) should consider instead Columbia’s School of General Studies; the same is true for students who wish to attend a part-time program. Applicants to The Fu Foundation School of Engineering and Applied Science should proceed with this transfer application regardless of any break in schooling.

Frequently Asked Questions (for Transfer Students) | Columbia University Office of Undergraduate Admissions

ACuriousmind · 07-29-2012, 10:08 AM

Thanks for the informative information so far!.

This has been helpful and will likely impact where I end up applying for in the fall. I guess I'll follow up with the financial aid office of Harvard. On a side note, a question came in from another individual via PM and here's some more info based off that:

- We do have parent loans + parent student loans + personal loans.
- My parents pay the parent loans & parent/student loans.
- I pay my personal loans (Have only started paying these loans THIS year so they will show up on this years tax return which would be the one on next years FAFSA. However they wouldn't show up on my previous ones.).
- If I were to be accepted to Harvard, or any other prestigious institution for that matter, I would be quitting my job AKA my yearly income would go from 40k+ to maybe under 10k (Part time work while in school)..
- I've been saving for the opportunity to "Go back to school."
- By the time I would start as a student I would hope to have $25,000 in savings.

sybbie719 · 07-29-2012, 10:14 AM

Quote:

If I were to be accepted to harvard (I believe this to be possible as my stats are extremely competitive.)

Harvard had an overall admit rate of 5.5% , with a 3% admit rate in the RD round.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/20...dmission-2016/

The challenge is that very applicant in the pool was competitive and believed that it was possible to be admitted.

If you get the opportunity, I would recommend that you read The Overachievers by Alexandra Robbins.

she states:

Quote:

Harvard's dean of admission and financial aid, Bill Fitzsommons told me that applicants have to do some unusal things to distinguish themselves is a "misconception". "in broad terms, there are 3 ways to get into Harvard," he said.

Each year out of 23,000 applicants and 2,100 admits,

about 200 to 300 students get in because "they are among the most exciting potential scholars of the coming generation."

The second category consists of "people who do something extraordinarily well.' 200 to 300 excelling in dance, drama, or athletics, whose achievements "are almost surrogates for energy, drive and commitment."

The third way to get into Harvard is the most common: students who have "plain old accomplishments on a day-to day basis. it is not about gimmicks, but about substance."

Harvard tells students there are hundreds of excellent colleges choices, and while Harvard may be one of them, other schools might be a better match.

Keep in mind that Harvard or any other really selective school is not at a loss of students applying who have perfect SAT scores, extremely high GPAs, number one class rank and unbelievably great extra-curricular activities (this could be subjective because at what you and your school may see as unbelievaly great Harvard/name your selective school could consider to be nothing special).

Toss, your application, and then forget about it. Make sure that you have a balanced list of schools, including schools that are financially feasible options.

ACuriousmind · 07-29-2012, 03:08 PM

Thanks sybbie719 for the extra info. It's much appreciated.

However for the purpose of the thread I'd like to avoid discussing the likelihood of acceptance to any schools that I end up applying to. Only because my primary concern is financial aid. With that being said he's some more information on me regarding admission info that I'll address on just this post for those who are curious:

- I was previously admitted to several IVY league universities and turned them down for a state university that offered the best financial aid package (Unfortunately this changed significantly when a college age sibling passed away at the start of college.).
- I have excellent academic credentials in addition my ACT/SAT scores are all in the 99th percentile (I was third in my class in high school.)
- I currently volunteer
- I was heavily involved in extracurricular's in high school
- I have really strong hobbies and attend exhibitions etc. to show off my work to other individuals who are in my area of expertise. I've been published in newspapers etc with some of the work I've done.
- I previously mentioned I make approx $40k a year. I co-founded a company with another individual two years ago. This provides approximately $7k of my annual income and I expect that number to rise to $13k this year bringing my annual income to $46k. My business is both growing, profitable, and I have two part-time employees and an intern. I'd like to think that something of this nature is a strong soft factor for admissions.

If and when I would move from my current state of residence I will no longer be involved in the project and the company will either likely be liquidated (and all employees let go.) or if the other co-founder is able to find someone to replace my skill set I will sell most of my ownership stake to him.

With that being said I think I will follow up with Harvard's financial aid office for more information on their policy as its unclear on their website. However in the mean time any other information are greatly appreciated.

Thanks everyone!