Eligible for aid @ UPenn? (help please!)

grammarstud · 09-19-2012, 01:50 AM

I am aiming to apply to Wharton ED (@ University of Pennsylvania for those who don't know) and the total charges amount to around 60k. My family's income is around 180k/year. My parents own two other properties (which they just bought this past year), so that might count as a "special situation", listed on the UPenn financial aid page. I also have a younger 12 yr old sister. Other than those factors, I don't have any valid reasons to "request" need based aid.

Based on the aid calculator, I am not eligible for any need based aid (which I agree with), but my parents are willing to contribute only 15k toward my education. Do I have room to make a case? Any thoughts/opinions (especially from those experienced w/ financial aid) are welcome, thanks!!

(Btw I'm in California and am eligible for a full ride to an excellent private uni as well as low tuition for the UCs, but I want to get out of state and am just looking at what I can do in this situation w/ UPenn and other possible privates)

mom2collegekids · 09-19-2012, 02:21 AM

it doesn't sound like you have any special circumstances to get any aid. Buying extra properties is NOT a "special situation". That is actually the OPPOSITE of a special situation. It's a luxury to buy extra properties. A special situation would be something like: my younger sister has a serious illness, we don't have health insurance, and my parents owe $200k in doctor bills for her.

you have to be realistic. You're expected to pay $55K+, yet your parents will only pay $15k. Even if you got some sympathy from UPenn (for god knows what reason), they might give you $2k-5k more....but you'd still be far, far short of paying for the rest.

You have no reasons for the school to ignore your famlly's good situation and simply give you $40k just for the heck of it....or just so your famlly can afford to have extra properties. Schools aren't going to give you money just so your famlly can afford to continue to pay for unneeded extra properties....otherwise everyone would do that.

As for UCs....Unless you can commute to one, they will cost you about $30k+ per year....how will you pay for THAT if your parents will only pay $15k??? "Low cost" isn't really low cost when you don't have the funds to cover those costs.

What school will give you a "free ride"? Is this a "full tuition" scholarship? Or is this a full ride (tuition, room board, books, etc)?

grammarstud · 09-19-2012, 03:28 AM

Thanks for your response mom2collegekids! Yes, I realize that I do not have any "special" circumstances at all that would make me more qualified for financial aid. I only brought up the additional properties because it is listed on the Penn financial aid page as a "special circumstance", so I was just wondering. I am very fortunate to be living in CA (so I have easy access to UCs) and one of my parents works for that private uni, so I am eligible for free tuition (if I get in).

I am very aware that my family is very well off compared to many others, and that I am lucky to have access to the UCs as well as to that one private uni. For all that, I am very grateful. I just came here to see if there is anyone, like me, who is from the upper middle class who also encountered this situation (specifically for Penn, because I'd love to go there) and may be able to share their experiences.

sybbie719 · 09-19-2012, 05:13 AM

Your parents purchasing a second property would result in you getting less aid, because the the 2 properties are considered assets. The school is not going to "reward" your parents by giving you aid when the money that they used to purchase the property could be used to fund your education,

dodgersmom · 09-19-2012, 10:34 AM

If your family is affluent, and you need financial aid, your only options are schools that offer substantial merit awards. There is no way for you to get the aid you need at a school such as Penn that commits its financial aid resources to need-based aid only. Because your parents have income and assets sufficient to pay your way at Penn, but choose not to, Penn will not give you the financial assistance you're looking for.

And, no, there is no way around this.

Well, there's one . . . you could borrow the entire cost of attendance for four years, with your parents co-signing. But if you're stupid enough to do that, then chances are that you wouldn't qualify for admission to Wharton anyway.

2collegewego · 09-19-2012, 02:26 PM

So is the issue that your parents want you to attend the university where one of them works?

Regardless of your parents' income, you would be eligible to receive non-subsidized student loans-- but those are only $5500 for freshman, $6500 for sophomores, $7500 per year for upper classmen for a total of $31K.

So, when looking for merit aid, you need to get expenses down to $20K ($15K parents' contribution + $5K loans).

grammarstud · 09-19-2012, 08:46 PM

Thanks for your replies everyone! Yeah, the realist in me already figured out that it would be pretty much impossible to receive aid from a university that only offers need-based aid, because I don't need any (based on income etc.)

@2collegewego There really is no issue here; I'd definitely be happy (and grateful!) to go to the university where my mom works but I think that I'd be happier going to Penn. Again, just looking at all my options here. Will look into non-subsidized student loans. Thanks again!

mom2collegekids · 09-20-2012, 12:11 AM

Non subsidized federal student loans are for the following amounts:

frosh $5,500
soph $6,500
junior $7,500
senior $7,500

Obviously not enough to make up for the shortfall of funds.

What univ do you have free tuition to? Would you be able to live on campus?

bengalsfan995 · 10-20-2012, 10:22 AM

I totally understand your position. Prior to the contrary belief of these people, $180k is not enough to pay for college, especially at a school like Penn. I am also trying to figure out how to make this situation work. I am not, however, from a state that already has great public institutions like UCLA, etc, so paying a lot for college is basically my only option unless I want to go to an average state school.

Is there anybody out there like this? Basically, you cannot be upper middle class and pay for an outstanding education. You either have to be relatively low income--less than $100k--or be super rich. An income of $200k is not rich, and it is certainly not enough to pay $55k per year, especially as a third of that is taken in taxes.

dodgersmom · 10-20-2012, 11:11 AM

bengalsfan -

No one expects a family with an income of $200k to pay the full cost of college out of their annual earnings. The expectation is the the family will pay for college from a combination of savings, earnings, and, possibly, future earnings (through loans). If your family isn't prepared to do that, then you look for a school where you'd qualify for merit aid.

mom2collegekids · 10-20-2012, 11:32 AM

I totally understand your position. Prior to the contrary belief of these people, $180k is not enough to pay for college, especially at a school like Penn.

Bengals....

Your thinking is a little short-sighted. A family that is earning $180k per year should be saving all along for college. If they aren't, then they've made the choice that they won't be funding a private education (which is their right not to do). Such a family is also expected to borrow a bit for college.

So, the cost is supposed to come from a combo of: savings, current earnings, and loans....imagine that each year, $15k from savings, $25k from current income, $10k from Parent loans, $5k from student loan, $3k from student summer earnings, $2k from student school-year earnings....that's $60k....and yet only $25k is from parents' current earnings of $180k.

I am also trying to figure out how to make this situation work. I am not, however, from a state that already has great public institutions like UCLA, etc, so paying a lot for college is basically my only option unless I want to go to an average state school.

this is kind of offensive. Unless you live in a state that has a low-ranking/unranked flagship, you probably have very good state options. AND, if you have the stats for schools like UPenn, then you have the stats for good merit at various schools out of state.

There are very few career paths that somewhat require an ivy league education.

What is your major? There may be state schools that are quite strong in that area which would provide you a very good education at an affordable price.

How much will your parents' spend each year?

If your parents' EFC is too high, then you have to consider schools that will give you large merit scholarships....schools like UPenn do not give aid to students whose parents have the income to pay.

thumper1 · 10-20-2012, 02:38 PM

Sorry to be contrary here...but we paid for our kids to attend private universities and our incomes at the time was less than $150,000 a year. I've posted this before so it's not news. Both my husband and I worked full time when our kids were in college. My WHOLE income...every penny...went to college costs for the years our kids were in college, and my husband's income paid the rest of our bills. So it IS possible to pay for an expensive college out of current earnings at this income level. Just FYI, we live in a state with the second highest cost of living and pricey housing too. We were very cautious in our home purchasing knowing that we would NOT want a huge mortgage payment when our kids were in college. Our home purchase took place ten years before our first kid went to college and with a sufficient downpayment to keep the cost affordable. We also did the same with larger purchases like cars.

cptofthehouse · 10-20-2012, 05:20 PM

Are those properties that your parents own free and clear, or do they have mortgages or liens against them? It is the net value you report. And do they generate net income, because if they do, that has to be reported.

If you want to give it a go, have your parents complete a FAFSA and PROFILE and see how it goes. IF you are working and saving and ask them to maybe match what you make this year, that might bring in another $5K towards the cost, and then you can borrow another $5K. ($5500 through Direct Loans/Staffords) If you can commit to work during the school year and summers, that's about half the cost with your parents throwing in the $15K they say they can. Still a big gap, but you can discuss the matter with them.

In your case, you seem to have some very good schools that are affordable and will take you on your list, so if you can understand that they will be likely where you will go, you can take a few chances and see what comes of some "lottery ticket" schools.

bengalsfan995 · 10-20-2012, 06:50 PM

You all have made me realize my "special case." Savings wiped and credit card debt of greater than $100k incurred in paying for prolonged nursing and medical care for grandparents. Is this able to be communicated on FAFSA? Or would this be something that would be communicated directly to a financial aid office?

thumper1 · 10-20-2012, 07:12 PM

There is no place on the FAFSA to note your debts. You would be looking for a special circumstances consideration from each college. It is wonderful that your family took care of your grandparents...but it is not likely (in my opinion) that the colleges will consider this as a special circumstance. Providing this level of funding for grandparents would likely be considered a choice your family made. That same money COULD have been not spent, this freeing up funds for college. Colleges DO consider medical expenses for your immediate family that are incurred in the year you file the financial aid forms. So...I believe in most cases, the full $100,000 medical costs (if they were for your immediate family...not your grandparents) would have needed to be expended in 2012.