sylvan8798

We've been on 4 cruises, all "free rides" paid for by the in-laws. Does that mean we should be able to "afford to pay at least partialy for our kiddo to go to Stanford"?

Things are not always as they seem.

NotYourBusiness

Hi lerkin:
I thought about a research, but got lazy to write everythin I though... Here are some ideas.
At LACs college costs come from the cost of paying professors + subsidization of low income students.
At top research universities, cost come less from paying professors, and come more from the fact that universities can charge a lot and people are still willing to pay + subsidization of low income students.
From the research university perspective, it does not make sense to require a top researcher to teach 4 sessions of "intr bio" or "intro programming". It is economically better to let a TA/Adjunct take care of these while the researcher is working on the "cure of cancer" or the next "quantum computer" (I know I am exagerating here). The model is such that smart students will figure they way through entry classes, and perhaps when they are taking advanced classes, they may encounter the top researchers and learn some advanced subjects. Asking the top researcher to teach 3 courses per semester, as it may happen at some teaching schools, will only be deterimental to the research university and the entire community associated with it.
On youtube you see some LAC movies/advertisement in which a teaching professor help students from the very beginning, teaching them how to focus a laser on a mirror, or how to adjust their protective goggles when looking at some bio stuff. Again, this is the type of thing that students would be expected to do by themselves or learn from their colleagues or TA at a research university. On the other hand, at the research university, if the students learned how to do those basic things, they will have the opportunity to take BIO498 and PYS499, where they will have the opportunity to focus the quantum-super-dupper lazer and kill cancer cells, while at the teaching school, students will not have the opportuntity to get close to this advanced stuff (which is only possible at the research university because it is being subsidized by the external NSF grant money by the way).
Students do have a choice: If they want a lot of personal attention, they go to a teaching school, and pay a lot. If they want to eventually get exposed to some of the state of art knowledge in their discipline, they go to a research university, and pay a lot as well. If they do not need the one-on-one attention, nor the exposure to top academics, they can go somewhere else and pay less. This is not broken, this is the way it is.
Lastly, there is the fact that many times some families (upper middle class and above) would be subsidizing some other students on financial aid. I think that this is driving up the COA more than the fact that a research professor only teaches a few classes per year. But this is another story for another time.

emeraldkity4

On the other hand when you cast a wide net it can be hard to show schools they are your first or even third choice.
Some schools weigh that heavily.
My oldest applied to five schools, one was a huge reach both academically and financially. Still, she really liked it and it was her first choice. She was accepted with enough aid to make it the same cost as her instate public choices.
I am not sure if she had applied to more reaches, that the outcome would have been as positive.

WordWorld

We too sat down with our son and said "we have X saved, which will cover in state for four years. If you get scholarships elsewhere, great, we will save the $ for grad school." He turned down some schools where his COA would have been less and some where his COA would have been more. The school he chose (a former admission and financial safety) will end up taking just about every penny of X and he is fine with that. We feel very lucky that he did not choose one of the higher ranked pricy no money admissions solely for the name, we probably would have felt obligated to at least help with loans.

StitchInTime

A bright kid that would have benefited from wise parents.

transfer0

I can relate to that kid's situation in that my mom makes what may seem like a lot to those living in other states (but with NYC COL and DEBT it is not a lot at all) and a father who is not willing to contribute, yet my "aid" is next to nothing.

hanaviolet

What is "NCP?"

carimama

^NCP = non-custodial parent

hanaviolet

Ah, thanks! (I wracked my brain and googled it, but just couldn't get it!)

YoHoYoHo

Op,
Didn't read thru all of the posts, but did his safeties provide merit money? Given that he was a top student, I would assume so. If they did, then his biggest mistake was dropping them before the financial packages came in from all schools.

lerkin

Maybe. However, I assume you would at least have good sense 1) not to go beg for a hand out from John Heald to celebrate your kid's achievement and 2) not brag about an "accomplishment" of getting full scholarship to Stanford (though acceptance to Stanford is truly an accomplishment).

mikemac

Perhaps that's it, but there could be another factor at play. Teachers are among the last sizeable groups of workers to have pension plans, which have been disappearing in the private sector. The average California teacher that retired in 201 receives $51K in retirement income for life (probably inflation indexed, too).

Those in the private sector need to save for retirement and can't drain all those funds to send the kids to college, public school teachers don't need to build up a nest egg. So for a public school GC, instead of assuming the parents are wealthy it may be instead projecting their own freedom from worry about retirement income onto the parents.

cptofthehouse

I think it's the old "if you are a hammer, all you see is the nail" adage in place. GCs want to facilitate the college process, and the financial aid part just isn't on the list other than as a hand out and the subject of maybe one lecutre that is very generic. Actually that is all that needs to be given as long as key points are addressed in both, like how the financial aid process actually works. I went to a number of these and would never have gotten an nutshell understanding that a long post here could give. During the early years, I had no more understanding of the process after walking out of those talks than before. It wasn't until I sat there and actually went throught the process, read the books, looked up some things, that I got it . And I'd love to kick some useless GC tail over that. I wasn't on these boards--don't even know if CC was around those days. It took a while before I go the understanding as to how things work,and it really is upsetting that this is not a standard core of knowledge. Many, many people are going through this process considering one of the most expensive ventures with no idea how the pricing works and guides are skirting the issue. It's insane.

Parent46

Re: the post about avoiding waitlists because they won't offer aid because they didn't want you at first

I don't think this is always true. At least it wasn't in our case. There's really no harm in staying on a waitlist to see what they will give you. Just don't throw your heart into it.

Also, the amount of "need" that many colleges offer to meet seems to be based on "merit."

cptofthehouse

My advice on waitlists, is that if the school interests you, accept a spot, spend a day or so putting together whatever you might have to enhance your chances there, let your GC know if one of them is your true first choice and ask her/him to let the school know, and then FUGIDABUDIT or however that is spelled. Just go right on ahead and procede with the school you selected that also selected you and has the price tag your family can afford.

When and if accepted off the WL, if cost is an issue, it should be addressed then. I have seen kids get good aid packages even off the waitlists of schools that do not guarantee to meet need. When it comes to the waitlist, the colleges do not want to fool around either. They want this over with, so to offer a spot to a high need student and not offer aid is really a likely waste of time when you want these spots filled now. So, often getting off the wait list is not a need blind process but if you get off, it is very possible your need will be met. Everyone, including the adcoms are DONE by then and want to put the matter to rest.

So, no don't avoid waitlists, but be aware that they may not be needblind in selection even if the college is for admisions purposes through the regular season.