Condit Bill

Amber307 · 10-14-2012, 04:42 AM

Hey guys, I am applying to UC's but I am an OOS student. I have talked to UC admissions counselors and they told me I could be exempt from oos tuition under the Condit Bill (one parent instate one parents out of state). However, I was wondering whose parent info I will need to put on the fafsa....my oos parent (my mom) or my instate parent (my dad). I currently live with my mom. I would assume I'd put hers...but I am just curious and was wondering if I am correct or incorrect. I know I cant even fill it out till Jan, but it's just been a question that has been bugging me for a while. I would call the school, but it's the weekend. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

sybbie719 · 10-14-2012, 07:16 AM

THe condit bill requires that you be dependent on a parent. Since your non-custodial parent lives in california and not your custodial parent it would be hard for you to establish dependency through california or the IRS. Also keep in mind that the exemption is only for one year.

the FAFSA is pretty straight forward, you have to put down the custodial parent who you lived with the most and provided the most support. This would be your mother (the OOS parent).

Quote:

Dependent of a California Resident (Condit Bill)
A student who has not been an adult resident of California for more than one year, and who is the natural or adopted dependent child of a parent who meets the University’s requirements for residence for tuition purposes, may be entitled to a waiver of the Nonresident Supplemental Tuition until the student has resided in California for the minimum time necessary to become a resident so long as continuous attendance is maintained at an institution.

Required Documents:

California Parent Affidavit, and

California Parent Tax Return, or
Evidence of California Parent support; for example, court-ordered support, or divorce decree, or other evidence of support for one full year.

Duration of Exemption: One Year Maximum.

This exemption may be applied for up to one year, then it ends and Nonresident Supplemental Tuition is charged.

To be classified as resident for purposes of tuition after the exemtion ends, students under this exemption must:

Establish all legal ties to California immediately upon arrival in California,

Sever all legal ties to their prior state of residence,

Provide evidence of their own continued physical presence in California during non-academic periods,

Complete a Petition for Classifiation to Resident for the term they claim to be resident for purposes of tuition.

Office of the University Registrar: Exceptions from Nonresident Supplemental Tuition

Other issues that you must take into consideration

Quote:

A. The student must be the dependent child (natural or adopted) of a California resident parent

1. Dependence is typically demonstrated by submitting verification that the student is claimed as a dependent for income tax purposes or the California
parent is providing court-ordered support.

B. The student must not have lived in California for more than one year

2 since arriving or since attaining age 18; once enrolled in a post-secondary institution, the student must maintain continuous full-time attendance.

C. The parent must have been a California resident for more than one year immediately prior to the residence determination date of the term for which the student wishes to qualify for an exception.

The Condit Bill may still apply even if the California resident parent has not claimed the student as a dependent. The student must be prepared to present documentation verifying that s/he has been financially dependent upon the California resident parent (e.g., a photocopy of a divorce or separation agreement specifically naming the California resident parent as a source of financial support).

In order to determine a student’s eligibility for an exception under the Condit Bill, the student must be prepared to provide a copy of the parent’s state and federal income tax returns, indicating that the student was claimed as a dependent for tax purposes, along with any additional documentation requested by the campus Residence Officer.

Once the student has attained age 18, and thereafter resided in California for one year, s/he becomes ineligible to pay fees at in-state rates under the Condit Bill.

http://www.reg.uci.edu/residency/dow...conditbill.pdf

Part of the challenge is after the one year period is over, you will have to establish your own residency in california. This means

Quote:

In order to be classified as a resident for tuition purposes, you must fulfill ALL 3 requirements listed below:

Physical Presence: You must be physically present in California for more than one year (366 days) immediately prior to the residence determination date of the term for which classification as a resident is requested.

Intent: You must establish your intent to make California your home one year prior to the residence determination date of the term for which classification as a resident is requested.

If you are physically present in California solely for educational purposes, you will not be eligible for resident classification regardless of the length of your stay in California. The physical presence requirement (above) will be extended until you can demonstrate a concurrence of both physical presence and intent for one full year.

Financial Independence: If you will not reach age 24 by December 31 of the year in which classification as a resident is requested, and are not dependent upon a California resident parent (biological or legally adoptive only) for tuition purposes, you will be required to satisfy the University’s self-sufficiency requirement.

It should be noted that this requirement makes it extremely difficult for most undergraduates who do not have a parent domiciled in California to qualify for classification as a resident at a University of California campus.

Establishing Legal Residence - Office Of The Registrar

it is almost like a catch 22; you have to be able to prove that not only you can pay your tuition without parent support, but you must also be able to provide for your day to day without their support.

dodgersmom · 10-14-2012, 08:44 AM

The short answer is that you put your mom on the FAFSA, and then also submit (directly to the school) all the additional documentation needed to prove that your dad has paid child support and/or claimed you as a dependent on his tax return.

Assuming he has paid support and/or claimed you on his tax return, qualifying under Condit should be pretty straightforward . . . but how exactly are you going to pay for your remaining three years of school (and living expenses) after your one year of in-state tuition under Condit ends??? Will your mom be helping? If yes, then you won't qualify for in-state tuition.

Is all of this really worth it for one year at a UC???

And just out of curiosity, assuming that you attend a UC under the Condit Bill and miraculously succeed in qualifying for in-state rates for your remaining 3 years, how exactly are you going to pay those in-state rates? They're not cheap . . . and qualifying for in-state tuition does not necessarily mean that you'd qualify for state aid!

cptofthehouse · 10-14-2012, 10:54 AM

FAFSA is very clear as to who you put on it as the custodial parent--the one you lived with the most in 2012 will be your custodial parent for 2011. As to other parts of the bill and the university's own regulations, it is wise to talk to someone there and find others in your same situation. WHo is going to be paying your costs while in college?

Amber307 · 10-14-2012, 12:07 PM

Thanks guys for the info

My parents got divorced a long time ago and he HAS been paying child support ever since. I originally lived in CA for 16 years of my life, but we moved to AZ about a year ago unfortunately

That's why UC's (more specifically UCI) is my dream school...

He is also planning on claiming me as a dependent.

I am going to make California my PERMANENT home. Even after college, I am not going back to AZ I am going to move back home and start my life there.

I have saved up some money on my own from working. I also have over 5000 in stock. And then my dad of course will help out. IF I absolutely NEED to, I will take out a reasonable subsidized loan.
TO dodgersmom: Thanks for replying. Referring back to your post, so my mom will NOT be able to help out in paying for my schooling? She and my dad were both planning on contributing as well as some other members of my family (grandma, grandpa, uncle, step dad, etc). If you don't mind me asking, could you further explain this?

I do realize I wont be eligible for cal grant, but I do know that UCI/UCLA, etc give out grants from their universities BASED on need base financial aid. I am NOT saying I am going to rely on that per say, but I am HOPING to receive some money from that grant as well as their regents scholarship.

Anyways, you guys DID answer my question about whose info to put on the fafsa so thanks so much. The question had been bugging me for a while and I kept on forgetting to call the school.

If you guys dont mind me asking another question, or rather furthering your explanations about establishing residency...what do I need to do to establish permanent residency (examples).

And by cutting all legal ties to AZ, would my mother not be able to help me out in anything financial?? She and my dad have always been really good at providing equal financial help, etc for me and my siblings. I apologize if I have this wrong, but if I do could you explain what it means to cut all legal ties?

Sorry for all the questions you guys, but I really appreciate you guys reading and answering

Hope you all have a great Sunday.

Amber307 · 10-14-2012, 12:15 PM

One more question, if I do attend my first year under the condit bill, will I be required to be Financially Independent for the remaining 3 years??

sybbie719 · 10-14-2012, 12:20 PM

Quote:

He is also planning on claiming me as a dependent.

It is not as easy as your dad is planning on claiming you as a dependent because the IRS is very specific as to the rules of claiming dependents

Quote:

Dependents & Exemptions

Question: May divorced or legally separated parents split the dependency exemption for a child?

Answer:
Only one taxpayer may claim a dependency exemption for a child in a tax year. Generally, the child is the qualifying child of the custodial parent.

However, the child may be treated as the qualifying child or qualifying relative of the noncustodial parent if certain conditions are met:

The custodial parent signs a Form 8332 (PDF), Release/Revocation of Release of Claim to Exemption for Child by Custodial Parent or a substantially similar statement and the noncustodial parent attaches it to his or her return.

Note that if the custodial parent releases a claim to exemption for a child, the custodial parent may not claim the Child Tax Credit for that child.

Dependents & Exemptions

Quote:

One more question, if I do attend my first year under the condit bill, will I be required to be Financially Independent for the remaining 3 years??

This is exactly what this means. In order to establish residency on your own after the expiration of the Condit bill, you will have to demonstrate that you are financially independent for the next 3 years. Since you will have to earn your earn money and you would still need to file the FAFSA because you are under 24, it is highly unlikely that you will receive any kind of aid. This is because the money that you earn to demonstrate that you can take care of your self along with their income, will most likely put you in a position where you are not going to be eligible for financial aid (cal grants or federal aid other than loans)

Quote:

Referring back to your post, so my mom will NOT be able to help out in paying for my schooling? She and my dad were both planning on contributing as well as some other members of my family (grandma, grandpa, uncle, step dad, etc). If you don't mind me asking, could you further explain this?

In order to claim residency after the expiration of the Condit bill, you can not be financially dependent on neither your mother or your father. You have to prove that you can pay school and living expenses with out financial assistance from either one of them. You will have to prove this by back accounts, a job, proof that you are living on your own and paying your bills. In addition, neither of your parents can claim you as an exemption on their taxes.

Quote:

And by cutting all legal ties to AZ, would my mother not be able to help me out in anything financial??

Exactly, your mother cannot provide you with any financial assistance. In addition, you must sever your ties to Arizona, which means if you should decide to go back to school in Arizona, you would no longer be considered an in-state resident.

cptofthehouse · 10-14-2012, 12:47 PM

If the student is "not dependent upon a California resident parent (biological or legally adoptive only) for tuition purposes," is the catch phrase here. It may be eminently doable. But for the student to do this, s/he needs to work with the school and also find out what others in that situaton at the school are doing. Also be very aware fo the risks if the school decides to clamp down on this category of students, with the state of CA in financial difficulites, that may well be something that happens.

However, in my experience, most state school have been lenient about defining state residency, regardless of what the official definitions are for kids of divorce or separation. There is a risk as there always is when one is going under the exception of rules,but I have seen this done many times.

lookingforward · 10-14-2012, 01:06 PM

Mostly agree with cpt. If..."not dependent upon a California resident parent (biological or legally adoptive only) for tuition purposes, you will be required to satisfy the University’s self-sufficiency requirement."

Also says: "Students under the age of 24 must be financially dependent upon parents who meet the aforementioned requirements, or the student must meet the UC Residence Policy's financial independence requirement." (Who is a Resident?)

"For students under age 24, the UC’s financial independence requirement will not be a factor in their residence determination if the student is dependent upon a California natural or adoptive parent who meets the above three University requirements for California residence for purposes of tuition and fees." (Eligibility, presence and intent.)

CA is traditonally not "lenient." Since OP lived there 16 years and only recently moved, still has a parent there, she is a somewhat unique case and needs the advice straight from the U.

But a note: the 366 day presence relates to the start of the next year's academic term. I qualified with, I think, 4 extra days, for grad school. It's not good enough to say, but I got here x days before the freshan term began. It will be one-year-plus to the start of soph year.

dodgersmom · 10-14-2012, 03:21 PM

Following the link sybbie719 provided above, Establishing Legal Residence, my interpretation is as follows:

(1) You do NOT need to establish financial independence in order to qualify for in-state tuition after your "Condit year" ends.

(2) You can instead qualify for in-state-tuition during those three years by showing that you are being supported by your in-state, California resident parent (your father).

Since you do not have to show financial independence, it should be okay for your mother to help with your expenses . . . as long as you are able to show that your father's contribution is significant enough that you are still "dependent" on him to be able to pay tuition. If his contribution is trivial, and the bulk of your costs are being paid by your mother, then you wouldn't satisfy the requirements of #2, above.

The language is not clear, and I could be mistaken, but my that's how I read the requirements.

I would strongly recommend you contact the "residence deputy" at one of the schools you're applying to. Doesn't matter which school - they're darned hard to reach, so talk to any one of them who'll take your call!

P.S. In order to qualify for the "Condit year," you do NOT have to show that your dad is claiming you as a dependent on his tax return. It's sufficient that he is paying court-ordered child support.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookingforward

Since OP lived there 16 years and only recently moved . . . she is a somewhat unique case

No, the OP's 16-year residence in California does not make her "a unique case." The law is clear: if she didn't attend (for 3 years) and graduate from a California high school, she does not automatically qualify for in-state tuition. It makes no difference that she previously lived in California. The Condit Bill grants a one-year exception to the residence requirement for any OOS student who receives support from a parent residing in California; whether or not that student previously lived in California is irrelevant.

Edited to add:

Aha! This link posted in another thread to the UC Residence Policy confirms what I stated above:

Quote:

Financial independence will not be required since the student is the dependent of a California resident.

Having a parent living in California does, indeed, make it significantly easier for the OP to establish state residence for tuition purposes.

lookingforward · 10-14-2012, 03:41 PM

I meant that, when she seeks to establish residency, her "intent" in moving back to the place she sees as home is different than many CC cases, where the kids primarily want the cost advantages. (And, where they sometimes comes across as transparent.)

And, considering some confusion here, I'm hoping OP hits some patient UC folks who will provide as much info as needed.