Jeckah

I am a relative of Jason's. I am saddened by many of the comments made on this post. I know some of it is because you don't understand all of the facts. I will try and answer a few.

Jason did not start college right out of highschool so he did not spend all that time accumulating loans. He did not live a wild life chasing women or drinking beer. He achieved his associates degree, bachlors, and his masters all pretty well consecutively. He took out additional loans so that he could pay for school and some for housing. He did work on campus as a TA and in the chem lab making some money to live on. Jason had several horrific life events that occured while he was in school. Jason sought counciling on several occations. He had no insurance and was at the mercy of free counciling services. He at times, was treated with medicine but he had little money. He gave up counciling. We pushed him to continue but you cannot make an adult go.

Jason send out many many resumes. He did try and get a job outside his field toward the end of his life.

I think combined with his depression and the constant calls of "when are you going to pay us" just caught up to him. He felt like he was a burden to his family . . . especially to his mother. He was ashamed. He reached out to the school career services for help but nothing materialized.

I cannot say what the exact amout is but a lot of the $$ owed was late fees and fines.

I talked to Jason a few days before he past and he gave no indication that he was preparing to end his life. He was a sweet kind hearted individual that could not keep his head above water.

I think in the end, I wish that the loan companies could have tried to work with him until he could obtain employment. We all wished he would have held out especially since he received two calls after his untimely dealth.

goaliedad

Thank you for the insight, Jeckah. I hope your family will find some peace.

Irene

Jeckah, my condolences for your family's loss.

joecollegedad

Jeckah, thank you for sharing some of Jason's situation and my condolences to you and Jason's family.

Jeckah said--
I think in the end, I wish that the loan companies could have tried to work with him until he could obtain employment.


Let's try to fix this college entry system to have more reasonableness and humanity in it. The admission process is intense and almost absurd; then comes the Financial aid process which adds to the absurdity, with the lack of true aid, or of loans masquerading as aid; then the mask is removed to reveal a monster.

Jimgotkp

My condolences also.. that is a very sad to hear.. Hardworking to pay off the loans but couldn't handle that pressure from those companies....

Debtslayer88

Um this may become a novel/swan song/Hell finally froze over/Gabriel's horn/fiction story...
Hello all. First off I can relate to JASON YODER (real napoleon dynamite and other suicidals we haven't heard about yet because of our nationality...maybe the dead can see through eyes that are alive). I am also 35 BUT (Afro American...let the stereotypes and prejudice begin) drowning in college debt (almost paid off credit card debt). I work at a sports retail chain making a living wage that now seems like slave wages because of garnishments. I had to move into a roommate situation so I can put myself in a better position to pay off my hideous-makes-me-want-to go sell drugs, become a pornstar/male jiggalo, rob a bank, sell software illegally, or become a hitman for hire college debt. I feel I am so close to the point where suicide doesn't seem like the right option (because I read this forum on the day when I felt like seriously jumping in front of a train) so to all that contributed at this point good or bad/pointless talking out of your ass comments I thank you.
I recently been getting phone calls from another lawfirm collection agency (or whatever they call themselves these days) pretty much threatening to further garnish my already what-canImake with rice to eat for the rest of my life check. I would also like to state at this time that I had a bout with depression on a level where the doctors that tried to diagnose me as being bi-polar or schizophrenic ten years ago. I've been off medication since 2000 and I will admit that YMCA low income section 8 housing (you make more your rent goes higher in less in than a year...how is this helping?) medication & religion isn't always the best solution but, every little bit helps. Right now I really just want to vent what is going through my mind so please forgive me if what you read from me this day forward (or on my tombstone that I can't afford). Is there any lives that may already be at stake (because we as Americans are fermenting our own American Bin Ladens/9-11 contributors and not realizing it yet) still reading this thread? Hello?

Atana

For Jason's family and friends, condolences. I have a certain unease about posting here, but having read this thread, it was imperative to comment.
First, despite all the talk about choices and 'personal' responsibility, colleges have played a decisive role in setting up these conditions of desperation. First the costs of education, even at 'lesser schools' have escalated insanely, and often for no cause a reasonable person could justify. For example, I had worked for an institution where the library was so dated as to be virtually useless, but this institution somehow could spend 2 million on a bell tower. Second because of collegiate incest with corporate entities, there are major conflicts of interest arising. Here in Colorado one institition has turned over its scholarship administration to a private corporation. Fine, some here enraptured with somewhat vague ideas of collegiate morality might be inclined to state, its 'the free market'. However, this company has a vested interest in ensuring student debt, and as such will not administer monies which are not theirs, without agendas.
Third, student loan debt often kills the future of students from the lower economic tiers with an appalling finality. They often attend schools which proportionately cost as much as the first tier schools. And because of their status its much harder for them have the connections which the affluent students will attain from their backgrounds. So, the social darwinist argument here can only be defended as a direct acknowledgment of exactly how stratified US society has become. So please refrain from the postmodernist Horatio Alger nonsense. These are exceptional cases, and not the norm.
Finally, one of the reasons the loan servers are coming down so hard on so many people, is political. This summer, both the Bush administration, and Congress had made plans to cut the subsidies for these private companies a paltry amount, 5/10s of a percentage points. In all probability within the next few months these companies will exact strong arm tactics on anyone holding student loans, who cannot pay at the level which these people desire...which will make the tactics of Mussolini's thugs look positively genteel. And the Mussolini analogy applies if you know the original name and motivations for that contingent.
And to quell the inevietable comments that I am some lost waif, disgruntled student, or 'failure'. I am part of the collegiate system as a professor. And even with that, the pay isn't anywhere close to the costs of the education needed to obtain these positions. And in many regards, I have become shamed by my collegiate association, because all the promises made, do not come anywhere close to the costs. So, yes the college system and their corporate cronies do have a moral debt owed which they do not acknowledge. And quite truthfully how can any system last which damns the aspirations of the intelligent and talented of their society? Especially when it's premised on a form of social propaganda which no longer has any real reference to reality. And losing intelligent people is detrimental to any society. Whether they are lost because they are crushed by it, or opt out, this situation cannot continue. The promise of education should never have been allowed to be compromised by base motivations, and that includes profiteering. Especially from preying on the dreams of others to raise their status or their knowledge. Other countries can educate their people, without damning them. If the US cannot do so, or will not because a very small percentage benefit from the current situation, reform is sorely needed.

tokenadult

Which countries?

Atana

Germany would be a good example. The Germans spend proportionally more to support education than here in the US. Granted they do require people to make career choices much earlier, and to demonstrate ability to meet standards within a given field at a much higher level. However, once the choice is made, the German system provides much more support, especially at the Bach level.
In my experience, German students who transfer into US colleges are two to three years ahead of their American comrades. As this is so, exactly what have the American students been paying for? In conversations with the German students I have yet to hear of 2 million dollar bell towers, obscene rates of pay for college presidents, and tenured faculty who are seen less on campus than UFO's or bigfoot.
In part the problems with the loans, and education costs are directly the result of the US government substantially curtailing support. Such as pell grants and other supportive programs are a good example. Since the 2000's students have been compelled to borrow more to pay for escalating education costs, because other means of aid have been hacked. And for non legacy students that's a major issue. Even more so because the fields their social status allow them to easily enter, generally do not pay anything close to the wages compensatory for the costs of the education. Teaching certificate programs being a good example of this problem.
The current predation on students, especially in regards to loans, does seem to be predominately a US issue.

tokenadult

Germany has a higher suicide rate than the United States.

http://www.who.int/mental_health/pre...iciderates/en/

Atana

The higher suicide rate in Germany relates to other social conditions, not the situation being discussed here, which relates to the effects and abuses inherent to the college loan situation in the US. Concerning student populations, the higher student suicide rate in Germany and for that matter Japan, is more the result of their unique social expectations for education. The pressure to get into certain fields of study, or family pressures not to cause lose of face. Which, once again, are implicity not directly correlated in any meaningful way to the issue being discussed in this debate.
That of the excessive costs and the literal carte blanche for abuses which have stained the US collegiate system. To illustrate, I have worked within the court system, and know first hand the tactics and harassment used by loan servicers.
Simply put, the level of harassment our system permits them to use agaisnt people is appalling. If a private individual were to conduct themselves in a like manner, charges would be applied for harassment, stalking, and in some cases, extortion. And specific experience within the courts is not needed to make this assessment. Many who have obtained advanced degrees, have to some degree been subjected to these pressures, or are aware of someone who has been.
So yes, I'm quite aware of the higher suicide rate in Germany. As any person would be who has the capacity to do a google search. But, it has little to do with the situation which caused the death of the unfortunate gentleman around which this discussion is premised. And that situation, is specifically oriented to the abuses with the collegiate funding system, and how the colleges themselves have been accessories to these activities. The operative word, in this context, was and is profiteering.

lkf725

Perhaps the stress of passing the Abitur has something to do with the suicide rate in that age group?

tokenadult

Okay, so in this thread we can go on from the hypothesis that completely revaming the student loan system in the United States would have prevented that unfortunate man's suicide. That hypothesis is not well backed up by international comparisons. Perhaps if we had a different system for funding college study here, along the lines suggested in some replies above, both he and three other men in his town would have committed suicide, not to mention more women. It's always important to check real-world examples when advocating changes in national policy.

Atana

The obvious correlation in this particular case, is yes, there was a decided link between the student loan situation and the death of the individual.
Whether or not there would be a decrease in other such acts, could only be known should that system finally be reformed. But unfortunately, and looking at the problem on an intuitive basis, there will be more of these deaths coming. For the reasons and because of the attendent pressures which have already been mentioned. The one unfortunate death upon which this discussion is hinged, could be a warning of much worse to come. And if this does happen, at what point do we consider financial profit for a limited group being a higher need than social stability?
And there are calls within the collegiate system itself, for these reforms to take place. Recent articles in the Chronicle of Higher Education bear witness to this trend, as do the discussions related to the loan issue on the Chronicle forums. Since the Chronicle of Higher Education is the nee' plus ultra establishment voice of academia, the mere presence of these essays and forum postings indicates how badly the situation has declined. Even within a system which has benefited from these situations and abuses, some know its gone too far.
Concerning national policy, is reform of that such a problem? Or is the situation that national policy in regards to student loans is being unduly influenced by the loan industry itself? These organizations do have substantial power, and hence lobbying access that students, communities, and faculty simply do not have.
For example, many of the SL companies do have ties to the financial organizations involved in the current foreclosure mess. And these corporations in their use of unethical tricks such as conduit financing, played a major role in recent mortgage collapse. And its very interesting that nothing was being done about that problem, until those entities began to lose money. It's profoundly disturbing how quickly the administration did act, once these financial entities made their complaints known. Through insider channels that the rest of us, simply cannot access.
Which reinforces the idea, that national policy, in any number of areas, has become too closely influenced by these companies.