Mirabeau

University of Delaware- $5,000 per year. I'm glad they offered me something, but of course, when the whole package will still cost in excess of $25,000 when you figure other expenses in, it's not a terribly realistic option.

University of Maryland- Zip. Nil. Just a $3500 loan. Given my stats (3.95 UW GPA, 4th in class), I'd have figured they'd have given me at least some merit money to try to get me to come, but apparently they don't want me bad enough...

goonymom

Sybbie, I can't speak for anyone else, but for myself, I knew all the things that you posted.

My dismay comes from the gap between aid and demonstrated need. And yes, I knew there WAS a gap, but until we get the aid letters, it's hard to know how big the gap is going to be. I am disappointed because for me, I'm getting the most aid this year (since this year I have three in college), so I'm looking at the numbers and thinking, whoa, if this is what it looks like now, next year is going to be much worse...

From the posts i've seen, it appears that many parents are in the same boat of being disappointed with the size of the gap. And forewarned is Not forearmed in this situation because we all (of course) hope that our situation will warrant a little more. I think that's just human nature. I haven't found the aid calculators to be all that useful, so I've just sat back and waited to see what is going to happen for MY child, in MY situation.

Also, I've seen a bunch of posts saying (I paraphrase) that parents are all whining that their EFC is too high. Again, speaking only for myself, I was VERY happy with the EFC. I would be thrilled to pay the amount of the EFC and be done with it. I would be thrilled to pay a little more than that. I'm not thrilled to be paying three times the EFC.

And of course, the first aid letter is the worst. After that initial disappointment I'm looking at the reality of our situation and we'll sit down and crunch numbers and get it figured out.


I've also seen posts saying if you don't have enough money to get into the 'top tier' schools, apply to your state school. But as Thumper pointed out, they usually give the least amount of aid. So for people who have high EFC's and won't be getting much money anyway, it may be true that shelling out 80k for four years at the state school is better than shelling out 200k for four years at the private school, but for people whose EFC is lower, they may do better at the wealthier private schools. And even high EFC people might do better if their child gets merit aid. But all of those things are *mostly* unknowns until you actually go through the process. You can make projections, but until the letters are in your hands, you're not sure.

So I expect that if you went back ten years, you'd see the exact same postings every March/April. Some people who are thrilled with their aid packages, lots of people who are disappointed, some who are completely in the dark, and some who are angry. But mostly people who are disappointed, because they've DONE the reading, worked on spreadsheets, etc, and still found that the system didn't give them what they were HOPING for. And maybe the hope is unrealistic, but I think the process is a lot more complicated than just having a basic understanding of how financial aid works.

tokenadult

I'm afraid so. Maybe the biggest basis for disappointment about financial aid is unrealistic expectations.

I was asked what I'm going to do with the data I'm collecting, and actually I'm not collecting data. I forget the specific figures as soon as I see them. What I'm wondering about is whether there are certain colleges that are reputed to be generous with either

a) need-based financial aid

or

b) "merit" scholarships

that still leave admitted applicants with substantial out of pocket expense (beyond "expected family contribution" by either of the two general methodologies), contrary to that reputation. If I get a sense that a particular college usually leaves admitted applicants holding the bag, I'll look for other colleges to encourage my class of 2010 son and other young people I know to apply to. Most people I know in my town have incomes just a bit above the national median household income, so list price at a nationally famous college is out of the question, but reasonable financial aid should help some of the young people I know through my math coaching have more choices when it's time to apply to college.

By the way, I recommend that participants new to this thread take a look at many of sybbie719's previous posts in this financial aid and scholarships forum

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/...rchid=10778342

because those posts have good information and clear explanations of what is less than obvious about how financial aid works these days.

northeastmom

goonymom, I wonder what it will look like in ten years? Are people going to be gapped significantly more? Are sticker prices going to be 60k, 70k/year? The costs are more than straining families now! Will we have some government relief? Obama has introduced some ideas. I believe that they are a drop in the bucket. Will they just enable schools to just charge that much more?

goonymom

Northeastmom, who knows? I have a friend with an EFC of 60k who has told her daughter that all the debt should be in the daughters name because maybe there will be changes in the laws that will forgive some of that debt, and of course there are a few programs presently that will forgive debt.... she's hoping for change in the federal aid. I wonder though, with her income, if increased federal help would help her anyway.

Of course, if schools think that most parents will be able to come up with XX dollars on top of XX federal money, they will increase their tuitions to maximize their returns. Colleges ARE businesses after all, right?

I see in college some of what I see in health care, which is that in a bid to attract students (patients) a lot of institutions are building gorgeous plants. Which increases costs, and really has no bearing on the quality of education (patient care). Of course there is some benefit to having a great science or athletic center (state-of-the art operating arena), but there is really no educational benefit to having huge student apartments (three-story atriums with waterfalls).

My fear is that 'the american dream' of kids going to college is going to become out of reach for lower and middle income families.

I heard a couple of really interesting stories on NPR, one about the GI bill and how much it brought into the economy back when it started (not the stripped-down version of today). The other was about the drag on the economy from student debt, that recent college grads are moving back home and aren't buying cars, homes, etc, because they are starting out with so much debt.

goonymom

tokenadult, I'd be happy to post specifics without the school names, but that probably wouldn't be helpful to you then would it?

northeastmom

goonymom, I agree with your entire post. If something does not change we will have less educated citizens, IMO. I think that everyone but the rich will be squeezed out.

dlbarber

goonymom: My feelings exactly about what you posted! My D has received 2 FA packages (still waiting on 1). One from a small, private out of state college, one from one of our state schools. The bottom line, counting the same loan (Subsidized Stafford) was the same! Then I added in trasnportation costs, so the out of state looks to be $1000 more. The state school met our need, but with 2 more loans. The bottom line figures for both schools are still 2 1/2 times our EFC as calculated by FAFSA. Fortunately, we have a grandparent owned 529 fund that will cover hopefully 2 years!

My oldest D is in her second year of college, we have not gotten her package for next year. I currently supplement her workstudy job with food money (she uses the job for books). I have noticed that with the increase in food, heating oil and gas prices that it is increasingly harder to have the extra money to send her. I really think that the economy is having a major effect on people's ability to pay for everyday things, so when we see these huge gaps between EFC and what we are expected to pay, we choke!

tokenadult

Well, going back to a list I saw online,

1 Harvard University (MA)
2 Princeton University (NJ)
3 Yale University (CT)
4 California Institute of Technology
5 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
6 Stanford University (CA)
7 Dartmouth College (NH)
8 Columbia University (NY)
9 University of North Carolina--Chapel Hill *
10 Duke University (NC)
11 Vanderbilt University (TN)
12 University of Chicago
13 Rice University (TX)
14 University of Pennsylvania
15 Brown University (RI)
16 University of Virginia *
17 Emory University (GA)
18 Washington University in St. Louis
19 Cornell University (NY)
20 University of Notre Dame (IN)
21 Northwestern University (IL)
22 Case Western Reserve University (OH)
23 Texas A and M University--College Station *
24 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (NY)
25 Johns Hopkins University (MD)

can we count on all these colleges meeting the full financial need of an admitted student? In other words, this year, in the real world, does a family with an EFC of X have to pay X + $5000 or 2(X) or even X + $20000 just to attend a college on this list? If you have an offer from one of those colleges that "gaps" you substantially, it would help to know that the specific case can be like that even though the college is on a list of colleges with good financial aid.

Best wishes to all of you figuring out which set of trade-offs makes sense this year among the offers you have received from various colleges.

aunt bea

Johns Hopkins
EFC: 44,000
COA: 53,278
Offers: 6000 loans

UCSD
nada

How does CSS do their calculations? I'm upset because we have been saving for our child. We have a 529 college savings account for our daughter that didn't really go anywhere, and have saved a grand total of $7306. There is no way we can afford the expected family contribution.

We live in San Diego. 17 years ago we lived on rice and beans for 2 years to purchase our home for $250K in middle class neighborhood.

Our house is now worth $500k, market value.
My dh has 154K income before taxes, but our prop. taxes and cost of living are ridiculous.
Until 2 weeks ago, I drove a 12 year old van with 200K miles. Van just died. My husband drove a 1999 car. Now we're sharing car.
I don't wear or have expensive jewelry or clothing.
My mom lives in the Barrio and her small house is worth $250k.
I know you can hear violins in the background but we have 2 more children coming up, with useless 529 plans.
Did I mention we're Mexican-American? DD is top 10% of class. Doesn't qualify for most Hispanic scholarships because of our income. Has applied for 15 scholarships, but no rewards. What else do you have to do. My blood doesn't sell well around here-diabetic and hypertensive.

thumper1

Token..the schools you list all use institutional methodology and THEY compute your family contribution and sometimes in different ways. As stated before, colleges using their own funds (institutional funds) can use the info on the FAFSA and Profile ANY WAY THEY CHOOSE...it's their money they are dispersing. Folks here will tell you that even at "full need met" schools, financial aid awards can very by thousands of dollars. Plus you then factor in that some schools have loans and some don't. Some schools count home equity and some don't (and they all use different %ages of home equity). Some schools consider other assets too (look at the supplemental questions on the Profile). Bottom line is the SCHOOL determines your financial need for institutional money. And what they determine varies.

Second bottom line...even if you receive the maximum amount of federal money...(your EFC is 0), the amount you receive will NOT fully fund a year of college except at a community college with you living at home.

thumper1

>>How does CSS do their calculations?>>

CSS Profile does NOT do the calculations. It gathers the information and sends it off to the colleges. The colleges do the calculations.

Pete0six

When I first got on CC, I was one of those naive people that thought merit and need awards were independent. However, after pouring over the posts of Thumper, Sybbie, NEMom, Cheva, and rest of the frequent FA contributors, I knew what to expect coming in. Schools take all aid into account when putting together the package. It some cases the merit award didn't make that much difference, because it would be close to the amount of the need based award if there was no merit. If you think about it, this makes sense. They still calculate what THEY think you should be able to afford and whether that is met by merit or need is not that important to them. I've love to be able to say DD your hard work paid off and we got a steep discount due to academics and need, but you typically don't get to double dip and the schools allocate the cash to the next person in line.

The real issue is the continuing escalating costs that don't make it "uncomfortable" to afford but rather "impossible". I have potentially six to get through college. I can take out loans and survive the first two, but I fear that there will be nothing left for the third and after and they will have less choices. No savings left, paying off loans for the first two, and an income too high to receive much if any need. The process is really a snap shot of where you are at that point of time, but we as parents have to predict where we will be financially years from now. It is a tricky proposition.

sybbie719

No, I have never said that because I can tell you first hand that it was and is less expensive for my child to attend an Ivy that it was for her to attend our state university. I did use the cost of paying full freight at our State U as a benchmark for what I was willing to pay for college, because had she attended our state U, we would have been full freight payers.

However, this does not negate the fact that when we are talking to our children about taking a bottoms up approach in making sure that they have a combination of reach, match and sure bet/ safety schools, that they include a true safety; a school that if accepted they will be happy to attend that is also a financially feasible option for their family.

I have also noticed that there is also so much more FA information now available (and there was a pretty good amount available then) than it was why I was going through the process with my child (now a senior), In addition almost evrey elite school has kicked in a low/middle income initiative and has reduced loans over the past 4 years. I can also tell you that it takes time to wade through the information, so the sooner you do it the better (IMHO, senior year is too late to try to absorb it all).

I think sometimes we fall down because we know that our kids have worked hard, gotten great grades and have done everything "right" and we think that when the process plays it self out that they will be accepted to some amazing schools and the money will also come. I know it has to be very hurtful to have to tell your child that your family cannot afford to take on the cost of this school.

For those of you who have not gone through the process, yet, I would recommend searching the parents forum for post by curmudgeon, who has a very smart scholar athlete kid but knew that he was caught between a rock and a hard place; "too rich" for need based aid but "too poor" to pay full freight. Curm for 2 years searched every opportunity to find a school where his child would be in the running for great merit aid (in the end his D turned down Amherst & Yale for full freight and other perks at Rhodes and is doing beautifully).

soproudofkids

Best FA packages:
Dickinson
Gettysburg
Wash U
Case (provisional award)
U Rochester

Disappointing packages:
Miami Ohio
UVM
Marquette
expecting U Delaware to be bad too