How hard is it to get out of an ED agreement? - Page 3

Toward · 11-02-2009, 08:23 AM

I understand now—I'd have to confirm my NU decision long before I heard back from Yale.

So really, I guess the only point off applying to Yale at all would be on the chance that NU rejects me... but Yale accepts me... yeah. I might just save that $75.

You guys have all been wonderfully helpful—I'm going to apply to a few more match and safety schools, I think, and then just sit back and see what happens on December 15. When that time comes, I'll probably have to come back here to pick up some more advice!

garland · 11-02-2009, 08:57 AM

Toward--yes, you understand it now, I believe.

Two additional things--first, why not wait on your other applications until you hear from NU? Otherwise, if you end up going there, you spent a lot of money on app fees which you wouldn't be needing (since once you accept the ED offer, you must withdraw other apps.) You can have them ready to go without sending them now, should you be turned down.

Two, and more importantly, if you really want Yale, not NU, should you be doing NU ED in the first place? Especially as you think there's a pretty good chance you won't get enough aid (in your estimation)? Why not apply Yale SCEA, and NU RD? Do you really need the ED bump for NU?

Toward · 11-02-2009, 09:48 AM

I probably will hold almost all of my other applications—the only exceptions being match schools where merit scholarships would make or break my possibility of paying for it. Those often have deadlines of early December.

With my old SAT score (2100), NU was a more of a reach. I figured Yale was one shot in a million, while doing Northwestern ED would give me a reasonably good chance. So yeah, initially, I did need the ED bump.
I figured it was better to do ED at Northwestern, and still have a shot, than apply SCEA to Yale and waste my early-application opportunity... potentially losing any chance of getting into an upper-level school at all.

When I got my SAT scores and they were higher than I'd expected (2210), I had already gotten everything ready for NU ED—in fact, I'd already submitted the supplement. On the other hand, my Yale app had sat untouched since I decided not to do SCEA. It didn't even occur to me to change my mind.

I think I'd be just as happy at NU. I wouldn't have applied early if I didn't think that...
At any rate it's too late now.

vossron · 11-02-2009, 11:17 AM

"NU claims it will meet 100% of my need. I couldn't find an exact, official reference"

It's at 2008-09 Financial aid, Common Data Set - Northwestern University:

"i) On average, the percentage of need that was met of students who were awarded any need-based aid. 100%"

In general, meeting 100% need can include work-study and a limited (is it by federal rules?) amount of loans.

"why not wait on your other applications until you hear from NU?"

There are schools (e.g., UCs in CA) whose RD deadlines are before ED results are available.

Toward · 11-02-2009, 07:58 PM

Yeah... Thanks...

Good news, I got NU's financial aid pamphlet today and it's not nearly as bad as I'd hoped. The pie chart where I got my information ($28,000 or whatever it was) turned out to be only the Northwestern Scholarship size—only a fraction of their total FA package. For most families with need, it looks like the remainder was met mostly with other grants and scholarships, and with smallish institutional loans.
Looks like I'm in good shape!

xiggi · 11-02-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

My understanding is that you are released from Early Decision if their aid package is insufficient. The family, not the college, makes the final decision about sufficiency.

After all those years on CC, it seems that people still like to post INCOMPLETE information that leads to INCORRECT assumptions.

While a school cannot force an applicant to attend a school if he or she cannot afford it, the school does not HAVE to release a student from an ED successful application.

What is common knowledge is that school WILL release a student to attend a school that is NOT comparable in selectivity or cost.

In so many words, the ED application is a binding contract, and the ONLY party that can rescind it is ... the school. Read the fine print of application, including the part where the student commits to withdraw all applications upon acceptance in an ED program.

Shopping around with an ED acceptance is both dishonest and fraught with a number of potential dangers.

thumper1 · 11-02-2009, 08:36 PM

Xiggi, I agree with you. And further...if the school has computed your need and they MEET that need...your need has been met.

vossron · 11-02-2009, 08:55 PM

Here's some fine print:

Quote:

Should a student who applies for financial aid not be offered an award that makes attendance possible, the student may decline the offer of admission and be released from the Early Decision commitment.

https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/..._Agreement.pdf

The student declines, and the school releases automatically.

"What is common knowledge is that school WILL release a student to attend a school that is NOT comparable in selectivity or cost."

Except that at the time the student must decline, the other school and/or its offer is unknown.

"And further...if the school has computed your need and they MEET that need...your need has been met."

A theoretical vanilla need by the school's standards, but the school has no idea if a family has, e.g., excessive lifestyle debt that nonetheless makes it impossible for the family to pay its computed EFC. That's why release is one-sided, completely the family's decision.

However, when a school admits a needy student ED, the school really wants the student to attend. Sometimes the school can do better, given additional info; students should inquire.

ED is meant for the one dream school, and the dream is shattered when the student is accepted but the FA offer is insufficient to allow attendance. Families should use the calculators to at least try to prevent such tragedies.

A pertinent article: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/ed.../strategy.html

xiggi · 11-02-2009, 09:27 PM

Vossron, here is the entire section on ED

Quote:

INSTRUCTIONS
From the National Association for Admission Counseling Statement of Principles and Good Practices:

Early Decision (ED) is the application process in which students make a commitment to a first-choice institution where, if admitted, they definitely will enroll. While pursuing admission under an Early Decision plan, students may apply to other institutions, but may have only one Early Decision application pending at any time.

Should a student who applies for financial aid not be offered an award that makes attendance possible, the student may decline the offer of admission and
be released from the Early Decision commitment. The institution must notify the applicant of the decision within a reasonable and clearly stated period of time after the
Early Decision deadline. Usually, a nonrefundable deposit must be made well in advance of May 1. The institution will respond to an application for financial aid at or
near the time of an offer of admission. Institutions with Early Decision plans may restrict students from applying to other early plans. Institutions will clearly articulate
their specific policies in their Early Decision agreement.

If you are accepted under an early decision plan, you must promptly withdraw the applications submitted to other colleges and universities and make no additional applications. If you are an early decision candidate and are seeking financial aid, you need not withdraw other applications until you have received notification about financial aid.

�� Yes, I have read and understand my rights and responsibilities under the Early Decision process. I wish to be considered as an Early Decision candidate at:
__________________________________________________ ____________________. I also understand that with an Early Decision offer of admission,
this institution may share my name and my Early Decision Agreement with other institutions.

A student still needs to withdraw application upon the receipt of NOTIFICATION of financial aid. Also, the guidelines offered by NACAC do not necessarily render the agreements that govern ED at each school.

'rentof2 · 11-02-2009, 09:38 PM

Yeah... I think the common knowledge that ED colleges will only release students to attend a school that is not comparable in selectivity or cost is only "common knowledge" here on CC. I've never seen it anywhere else, and as vossron points out, it doesn't even make sense given the timing.

vossron · 11-02-2009, 09:38 PM

^^ Yep, good for all to know, but the bottom line is that needy students should NOT be discouraged from applying ED to their dream school out of fear that they will somehow be compelled to attend (perhaps bankrupting their families?) and then be expelled for non-payment of the bill. They should know that they can decline the offer if there's just no way to make it work. See the NYT link above.

Toward · 11-02-2009, 09:55 PM

I thought I was pretty clear that I had no intention of trying anything shady...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me

Please don't take this as an underhanded attempt to break contract. If NU accepts me and gives me the amount of aid I need, I would be perfectly happy to attend it. But I believe I have a legitimate concern.

I also was not trying to gain more aid than necessary—on the contrary, I mostly wanted to figure out the level of truth to NU's claim to meet 100% of aid. Most of my concerns have been alleviated:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me

Good news, I got NU's financial aid pamphlet today and it's not nearly as bad as I'd hoped. The pie chart where I got my information ($28,000 or whatever it was) turned out to be only the Northwestern Scholarship size—only a fraction of their total FA package. For most families with need, it looks like the remainder was met mostly with other grants and scholarships, and with smallish institutional loans.
Looks like I'm in good shape!

So, thanks for all the additional input, but I think I've got it figured out now.

Greta · 11-02-2009, 09:58 PM

This is purely an exercise of interest on my part because I don't have a student applying this year nor would my student apply ED, but I find myself wondering if the whole early decision agreement "we will only release you to a lower level school" thing has been weakened with so many schools now using the Common Application. I read the same Common Ap ED statement xiggi provided and have scoured the Northwestern website looking for additional specific Northwestern University policies with regard to ED. The only references I am seeing on the Northwestern website are links to the Common Application ED signature page. If NU has any additional policies regarding ED above and beyond the Common Ap language, please tell me where to find it. And if they don't have any other written policies, how can they (or any other university, really) restrict where a student applies after the ED release? I can certainly see why there is so much confusion.

'rentof2 · 11-02-2009, 09:58 PM

Toward, I don't think those last few posts are directed at you. They're just about ED agreements in general.

Toward · 11-02-2009, 10:02 PM

Okay. Just being sure! Once again, I do appreciate all the information and advice.