Applying to grad school a year after winning NSF fellowship.

jonah1 · 10-17-2012, 11:03 AM

This is sort of a hypothetical question. Suppose I win the 2013 NSF fellowship, can I take advantage of NSF's 2 year reserve policy ie hold on to it for a year (getting my non-thesis masters or doing research in some lab) and apply for PhD admissions for fall 2014? Will that open doors that would remain shut if I apply this year? Has anyone done something like that or knows about someone who has done it? b/w I'm a senior doing electrical engineering in a relatively unknown state school.

RacinReaver · 10-17-2012, 01:20 PM

If you're rejected from a school and you win an NSF you should let every school know that you won it. That sort of thing can reverse admissions decisions if you were a borderline candidate.

juillet · 10-17-2012, 06:24 PM

I don't believe that you can do that. If you apply for the NSF as a senior, I believe that in order to take it, you have to prove that you are entering a research-based MS or PhD program in your field. You can put it on reserve for other reasons - taking a leave of absence, taking other sources of funding - but I don't think you can put it on reserve because you aren't going to a school in the fall.

Although, I suppose the loophole might be there - you can certainly put it on reserve for taking a leave of absence, so maybe the thing to do is take an immediate leave of absence...But it seems silly to me to do that. If you don't want to go to graduate school right now, wait to apply to both graduate school and the NSF until you are ready. Theoretically speaking if you are a competitive enough candidate to get the NSF, you are also competitive enough to get into a doctoral program, but as noted above even if you don't you can always call the school up and be like "Hey, I got the NSF, can I come anyway?" In most cases they will say yes.

spectastic · 10-17-2012, 07:58 PM

U of M publishes their acceptance rates every year. I can't for the life of me find it right now, but for PhD in chem e, it has been around 20%, and they're ranked pretty high. As far as I know, most schools don't publish this stuff, so I don't know where rates of lower than 10% would come from.

spectastic · 10-17-2012, 08:03 PM

I think with the merit and accomplishments associated with getting a NSF scholarship, you should be able to get into at least the top 20 schools. The NSF accepts 10% of their applicants. Most top grad programs have acceptance rates of around 20%.

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But given an unlikely scenario where a guy gets rejected by all his schools, or ends up getting really crappy offers, would he be able to plead a case where he tries to keep his NSF, and uses it to his advantage in next year's grad school application? Perhaps even the spring application season.

jayeyesee · 10-17-2012, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Most top grad programs have acceptance rates of around 20%.

I'm sorry but this is just not true. Expect a much lower rate.

variola · 10-17-2012, 08:50 PM

@Spectastic Top graduate programs have acceptance rates at or under 10%.

To address the OP: if you are competitive enough to get the NSF, you should be competitive to get into a good grad school.

jonah1 · 10-17-2012, 09:44 PM

@RacinReaver I've heard about people doing that but what I've asked about is holding onto it and applying the following fall.

@Julliet I think putting it in reserve is possible, atleast that is what my advisor told me. One can enroll in a lab while being in a non thesis MS and do enough work to submit the annual report, or just be in a research lab. My question is will it open doors if I hold onto it, to say, the top 5 engineering grad schools ? like MIT, caltech etc ? or do these top schools just base their decisions independent of funding status.

@variola You are right! getting into a grad school should not be a problem. But how about the top 5 ?

@Spectastic Most engineering grad schools have no spring admission. I dont think one can hold onto it just because of crappy offers. I think its okay to tell them that you'd like to get a masters degree or do research etc. I think the whole point of the 2 year reserve thing is about NSF giving the fellow the freedom to pursue what he/she wants before getting into grad school (or in between grad school)

b@r!um · 10-17-2012, 11:34 PM

Quote:

My question is will it open doors if I hold onto it, to say, the top 5 engineering grad schools ? like MIT, caltech etc ? or do these top schools just base their decisions independent of funding status.

I was told by departments at MIT and Stanford that outside funding does not affect admission decisions. However, Berkeley, Michigan and Austin openly stated that outside funding will affect decisions.

That aside, here are a few FAQs from the NSF website:

Quote:

May I delay a year and defer my Fellowship Offer?
In general, there are to be no delays in the start of your graduate program, beyond NSF-approved Military and Medical Deferrals.

I have decided to take a year off to work, travel, etc.; may I defer my Fellowship offer?
No. To accept the Fellowship offer, you must be accepted to and planning to enroll full time in an eligible graduate program no later than the fall immediately following the Fellowship offer. There are to be no delays in the start of your graduate program, beyond documented and NSF-approved Military and Medical deferrals. Reserve status is not a deferral option.

What do I do if I have not been accepted into a graduate program at the time of the Fellowship Offer?
Unless you are accepted to a graduate program before the May 1 acceptance deadline and intending to enroll full-time in the Fall immediately following the Fellowship offer, you may not accept the Fellowship. If you decline the Fellowship by the May 1 deadline, you may reapply for the Fellowship in subsequent competitions, providing you continue to meet the eligibility criteria detailed in the Program Solicitation. If you do not respond by the deadline, you are ineligible to re-apply to future GRFP Competitions.

jonah1 · 10-18-2012, 12:14 AM

@b@r!um Thanks for the reply. I assume state schools look are more open to fellowship holders than private schools..

The FAQ's only state the need to be enrolled in a grad program by fall. So I guess its possible to be enrolled in a masters program, reserve the fellowship, and apply the next year for a PhD...

*xraymancs* · 10-18-2012, 12:31 AM

Not sure what you mean by reserving the fellowship. The NSF is pretty explicit that you need to take it right away and use it in a graduate program. If you are not sure you want to start graduate school right away, just wait to apply to the NSF and to graduate school. These NSF Fellowships are extremely competitive and students who win them are usually involved in far more than just their studies and research. If you are not committed to a Ph.D. it will show in your application and doom your chances.

juillet · 10-18-2012, 11:24 AM

I have an NSF GRF, btw.

It says an eligible graduate program. A non-thesis MS is not an eligible program - the NSF is very clear that it needs to be a research-focused master's or PhD program. The intent of the fellowship is not to help you get into graduate school or for you to just hold it until you feel like starting a program; it's for serious scholars who intend to pursue a PhD immediately. The reserve status was created so that students who have other forms of funding can reserve the NSF until they need it, or in case students need to take a leave once they already in the program.

Why would you do a non-thesis master's anyway, if your goal is a PhD program? Not only would a thesis-based master's be far more competitive (and admissions committees will wonder why you chose a non-thesis master's), you can turn your thesis into a publication AND you would still be eligible to take the NSF, in the uncommon event that you manage to get one for an MS program.

jonah1 · 10-18-2012, 09:43 PM

@Julliet, So what you are saying is NSF would not support a non-thesis masters. Obviously when I apply, I would be showing my intent to join a PhD program. But if I win, wouldn't NSF allow me to reserve it for a year or two as long as I'm enrolled in a graduate program in an eligible Field of study. I could continue in my same school for MS, be an RA at my lab and then apply for PhD programs next year. From what I understand from the FAQ's, its ok to take only coursework while on reserve status. I will also be doing research in my lab.

Quote:

What is Reserve Status?
Reserve Status ensures that Fellows have the flexibility of incorporating professional development opportunities (e.g., research assistantships, teaching assistantships, internships, etc.) into their graduate programs. Fellows may use Reserve Status to postpone Fellowship Support for up to two years, in 12-month increments, during the five-year Fellowship Period. Fellows on Reserve Status must remain actively engaged in full-time research and/or coursework, leading to an eligible graduate degree in an NSF-supported field.

Now suppose I could pull it off, will it improve my chances if I apply next year? From what b@r!um said, I guess only top state schools care about having fellowships...

spectastic · 10-18-2012, 10:11 PM

I'm finding it hard to believe that some schools don't consider external funding as a factor in grad school applications. If anything, I think they're just trying to make you feel better about applying so they can have a bigger selection pool and a lower acceptance rate. As far as I know, university is a business, and they care about money. I have no doubt in my mind that a person without need for financial support will have a big advantage over those who do need it, and this applies for ALL schools.

similarly, some of those schools' websites also explicitly state that you're not to email the professors, and instead just apply for their programs, but do you honestly believe the whole faculty actually feels that way?

spectastic · 10-18-2012, 10:14 PM

also, I posted this yesterday, but somehow my post got squeezed in the middle of the discussion, instead of appearing at the end.

here it is:

Quote:

U of M publishes their acceptance rates every year. I can't for the life of me find it right now, but for PhD in chem e, it has been around 20%, and they're ranked pretty high. As far as I know, most schools don't publish this stuff, so I don't know where rates of lower than 10% would come from.

I also checked UWashington, a top 20 program... and their acceptance rates varied quite a bit from 10 to 20%